Discussion with Shipyard level 15

[Abhorsen]

Good evening,

I was hoping to give my review of the shipyard level 15. First, I think the TT being offer is a great touch to helping get people away from level 12 being the go to shipyard meta.

I think it can be adjusted to make it shine a lot more.

1) most of the times for a lot of the free TT are 2 days without research or Sydney wonder.

- all expeditions should really stay in the 1 day threshold. I don’t agree with any of the expeditions being longer than 1 day. This is due to the fact that a lot of people that are free 2 play relies on those TT for war attacks.

2) All the TT offered are only 1x per expedition with 2 days! If we cannot reduce the duration of the expedition. The next best method is up the number of TT you gain from each expedition for 2 days. You should get 2 to 3 TT per trip.

3) Most players in Auto Age - Don’t need oil or diamonds for trips. Please remove these expenditures. Give us tokens / 50 to 80 crowns* without the bonus of a general. Even fragments for the museum would be a better reward - 500 fragments / 250 rubies.

* A general attached you can already get crowns too. This I know.

Make the shipyard at the max level really shine for us!

Thanks,
Abhorsen

@Harlems369th

 

[King Crimson]

So, in your opinion, is the current lvl 15 "as is" better than lvl 12?

 

[oddin]

Good evening,

I was hoping to give my review of the shipyard level 15. First, I think the TT being offer is a great touch to helping get people away from level 12 being the go to shipyard meta.

I think it can be adjusted to make it shine a lot more.

1) most of the times for a lot of the free TT are 2 days without research or Sydney wonder.

- all expeditions should really stay in the 1 day threshold. I don’t agree with any of the expeditions being longer than 1 day. This is due to the fact that a lot of people that are free 2 play relies on those TT for war attacks.

2) All the TT offered are only 1x per days. If we cannot reduce the duration of the expedition. The next best method is up the number of TT you gain from each expedition for 2 days. You should get 2 to 3 TT per trip.

3) Most players in Auto Age - Don’t need oil or diamonds for trips. Please remove these expenditures. Give us tokens / 50 to 80 crowns* without the bonus of a general. Even fragments for the museum would be a better reward - 500 fragments / 250 rubies.

* A general attached you can already get crowns too. This I know.

Make the shipyard at the max level really shine for us!

Thanks,
Abhorsen

@Harlems369th

The shipyard, even in its latest form, after the latest changes, is a FAILURE!

- expeditions are lengthy
- TTs given do not have a clear purpose/use
- TTs have mixed low and high health units. Therefore are completely useless due to silo.
- The one thing we needed, the NTGs (not the NTG shipments), were the one thing they discarded!
- The last level gives LESS Supplies than level 14.

I, for once, have remained at Level 12 and will continue to do so.

 

[Abhorsen]

So, in your opinion, is the current lvl 15 "as is" better than lvl 12?

We discussed this in F8tal discord and did the math. If you have count wall breaker TT with 4 mortars. It does still surpass the dmg point of the newest dock TT. Not a huge gain, but it’s there.

 

[Harlems369th]

What would add more value to levels 13 and up for all of you? Are you seeking TTs, NTGs, or Supplies? More of what level 12 gives? What makes level 12 more valuable to you?

The supplement of TTs in Event Passes was meant to satisfy the need for TTs, but now we get so many and so frequently, it doesn't appear that it satisfies that need if we based it on the expectations for the Shipyard.

If you had to pick just ONE resource to pull from shipyard at a specific point then what would it be? Would you be opposed to perhaps this building is reserved as an older progression item that doesn't need any attention at a specific point, or is this an integral part of your regular/daily play? For example, maybe level 12 is the end game and you don't have to progress the building any further. Is it a need to complete all levels by that point?

 

[KrispyCrame]

What would add more value to levels 13 and up for all of you? Are you seeking TTs, NTGs, or Supplies? More of what level 12 gives? What makes level 12 more valuable to you?

The supplement of TTs in Event Passes was meant to satisfy the need for TTs, but now we get so many and so frequently, it doesn't appear that it satisfies that need if we based it on the expectations for the Shipyard.

If you had to pick just ONE resource to pull from shipyard at a specific point then what would it be? Would you be opposed to perhaps this building is reserved as an older progression item that doesn't need any attention at a specific point, or is this an integral part of your regular/daily play? For example, maybe level 12 is the end game and you don't have to progress the building any further. Is it a need to complete all levels by that point?

NTGs, TTs and supplies are vital from dock given the current state of the game and the upcoming showcase changes. We shouldn't have to choose between the three.

Starting with NTGs first, ever since the previous NTG rebalance, MP is borked because it's impossible to routinely and reliably obtain the NTGs you're looking for. The prevailing theory in the community is that the university bonus lines messes up the rebalance formula.

Next, TTs from dock (wall breacher army, aerial strike, and a few of the lvl 15 TTs) are better than 99% of TTs (save generals, suppression tanks, recon, and the occasional premium TTs) because munitions apply to them.

Supplies cannot be easily obtained anywhere else and given showcases now, if we only have one copy of an art, we can't sell it...
Supplies are a must

 

[Joe]

As a f2p player the shipyard value for me comes from the TTs and NTGs; the problem is that we're missing TT mixes: There is no TT from shipyard that has a support vehicle, no HT either, the APC TT has a too low lvl APC. I made it to auto age 1 month ago and i'm not upgrading my shipyard past lvl 12 because i use AH and APCs and from what i've seen upgrading it would make me lose those TTs and i need them for ww and as OP said it'd be nice if we could at least get 2-3 TTs instead of one (i know general on expedition has a chance to give a second one but it's not 100%)

With NTGs would be nice if we can either select before sending the expedition which NTG we want or select it from the box we get instead of it being random because it's really frustrating to keep opening those wanting to get something specific and to keep getting everything but what we wanted.

The museum mats, i don't see any problem with the ammount we get but then again, since i depend on tokens to get my artifacts 'coz i can't buy them from the store it takes me months to get a new one anyways.

 

[Abhorsen]

expedition

What would add more value to levels 13 and up for all of you? Are you seeking TTs, NTGs, or Supplies? More of what level 12 gives? What makes level 12 more valuable to you?

The supplement of TTs in Event Passes was meant to satisfy the need for TTs, but now we get so many and so frequently, it doesn't appear that it satisfies that need if we based it on the expectations for the Shipyard.

If you had to pick just ONE resource to pull from shipyard at a specific point then what would it be? Would you be opposed to perhaps this building is reserved as an older progression item that doesn't need any attention at a specific point, or is this an integral part of your regular/daily play? For example, maybe level 12 is the end game and you don't have to progress the building any further. Is it a need to complete all levels by that point?

Is it possible to do a feature like this - you reach max level of shipyard. Please pick from a list of 3 for TT and a list of 3 for NTG, Museum supplies, and perhaps tokens / crowns for each boat journey.

All TT will follow your age for your base and provide all TT units at the max level for that age. Let us cycle through what TT will meet our play style.

This isn’t about how many TT we get from event passes for war. The TT from docks are unique when compared to event passes. they provide a synergy with a lot of our attack strategies and share munition synergy from Manufactory too.

What we want is all TT to have max age stats with our troops and to be able to pick what we want to use in battle.

You could even do a system for each boat - this boat will sail for 1 day. You can pick for it to search for Aerial Strike, Wall Breaker, or Enduring troops. You have a chance to get 1 to 3 TT per journey.

 

[King Crimson]

Is it possible to do a feature like this - you reach max level of shipyard. Please pick from a list of 3 for TT and a list of 3 for NTG, Museum supplies, and perhaps tokens / crowns for each boat journey.

All TT will follow your age for your base and provide all TT units at the max level for that age. Let us cycle through what TT will meet our play style.

This isn’t about how many TT we get from event passes for war. The TT from docks are unique when compared to event passes. they provide a synergy with a lot of our attack strategies and share munition synergy from Manufactory too.

What we want is all TT to have max age stats with our troops and to be able to pick what we want to use in battle.

You could even do a system for each boat - this boat will sail for 1 day. You can pick for it to search for Aerial Strike, Wall Breaker, or Enduring troops. You have a chance to get 1 to 3 TT per journey.

I feel the dock is a bit of a lottery so picking what you want and having all of them maxed out isn't a real lottery - feels more like online shopping.
I do think the TTs per dock should be at a level commensurate with the age of the base and they should increase to 2-3 at higher levels but then they could also cost a worker or two - otherwise where's the challenge?
Maybe level 15 docks should offer a weekly mystery expedition, with a chance to get supplies, Auto age TTx3, NTGs, epic recruit, 3 line artifact plus crowns?
Something nice for the veterans/loyal players.

 

[I.D]

So, in your opinion, is the current lvl 15 "as is" better than lvl 12?

imho nope. just garbage... lvl 11/12. all the rest are trash

 

[I.D]

What would add more value to levels 13 and up for all of you? Are you seeking TTs, NTGs, or Supplies? More of what level 12 gives? What makes level 12 more valuable to you?

The supplement of TTs in Event Passes was meant to satisfy the need for TTs, but now we get so many and so frequently, it doesn't appear that it satisfies that need if we based it on the expectations for the Shipyard.

If you had to pick just ONE resource to pull from shipyard at a specific point then what would it be? Would you be opposed to perhaps this building is reserved as an older progression item that doesn't need any attention at a specific point, or is this an integral part of your regular/daily play? For example, maybe level 12 is the end game and you don't have to progress the building any further. Is it a need to complete all levels by that point?

hello sir.
the last year you have been pushing mortars. it is obvious that you don't know how to play. there is not a single voice in the councilors that can counter them. dozens of councilors no voice against field mortars, but many councilors have bonus field mortars. i am happy not to spend money on this game.
one thing you know how to do very well. make money... it is not a criticism of you, just to be clear.
then what is the point of not showing the council bonus but only the museum. you really think people are stupid. apparently yes . they are. it is not an offense but simple perception of reality. take care

 

[oddin]

- TTs must have a clear purpose/use. Like Wall breachers do. The new TTs fail on this.
- TTs like wall breachers do not have mixed low and high health units. Therefore are useful because they do not attract Missile Silo and complement Lego very well. The new TTs fail on this.
- The one thing we need, is specific NTGs (not NTG shipments). When we play as Defenders or Strikers, we do not change roles. My striker account is always depleted on tea and wood. It is always these 2 NTGs that I am looking after and can't find.

 

[Harlems369th]

- TTs must have a clear purpose/use. Like Wall breachers do. The new TTs fail on this.
- TTs like wall breachers do not have mixed low and high health units. Therefore are useful because they do not attract Missile Silo and complement Lego very well. The new TTs fail on this.
- The one thing we need, is specific NTGs (not NTG shipments). When we play as Defenders or Strikers, we do not change roles. My striker account is always depleted on tea and wood. It is always these 2 NTGs that I am looking after and can't find.

@KrispyCrame
The removal of specific NTGs came about with the addition of Marco selling them for rubies. The Specific NTGs you can get for rubies through Marco (5 per day), do you think there should be a larger quantity to purchase from Marco? Or does this not quite satisfy the need you're looking for?

WRT TTs, would it be right to say you're seeking more 'specialized' TTs? Granted, we likely won't drop like a Super Stallion there or something of that ilk, but TTs that complement each other better would be preferred?

Ex. Tokyo at lvl 12 offers 200 supplies and 7 NTGs, then Berlin gives the Aerial Strike Army, which leans more toward infantry/defender clearing (focused). Whereas Boston at lvl 14 offers 210 supplies and a Core Convoy Army is there to focus buildings and get troops behind walls faster but perhaps not as focused as the Aerial Strike Army which (to me, how I look at the unit not a fact just to clarify) has a more clear function.

TTs will be hard to ensure everyone is satisfied, but what in Level 12 for TTs stand out the most to you or as a must have from Shipyards and why? I'm pulling data of use rate, but it's helpful to hear exactly why because that data only shows so much.

 

[Abhorsen]

@KrispyCrame
The removal of specific NTGs came about with the addition of Marco selling them for rubies. The Specific NTGs you can get for rubies through Marco (5 per day), do you think there should be a larger quantity to purchase from Marco? Or does this not quite satisfy the need you're looking for?

WRT TTs, would it be right to say you're seeking more 'specialized' TTs? Granted, we likely won't drop like a Super Stallion there or something of that ilk, but TTs that complement each other better would be preferred?

Ex. Tokyo at lvl 12 offers 200 supplies and 7 NTGs, then Berlin gives the Aerial Strike Army, which leans more toward infantry/defender clearing (focused). Whereas Boston at lvl 14 offers 210 supplies and a Core Convoy Army is there to focus buildings and get troops behind walls faster but perhaps not as focused as the Aerial Strike Army which (to me, how I look at the unit not a fact just to clarify) has a more clear function.

TTs will be hard to ensure everyone is satisfied, but what in Level 12 for TTs stand out the most to you or as a must have from Shipyards and why? I'm pulling data of use rate, but it's helpful to hear exactly why because that data only shows so much.

1) No - we rarely ever use rubies for NTGs. We are always saving our rubies for TTs chest, Speed up, Chest or, VIP rewards. Most lego players use their 1k rubies on these artillery to synergy with Mongol Coalition. Would increasing the quantity per specific NTG, help us out? Probably not.

What may help truly is lowering the cost for each Coal. Maybe make it 2 NT instead of 8 NTG per coal.

2) Yes - we like the TT that has certain groups together. Because they help against defenders and killing buildings faster. You can see the mortars aid in killing defenders, the MG infantry help with suppression and the wall sappers help with opening the wall for the troops to sneak in. This is great synergy for all 3 units. They all benefit from
Munition and Coalition.

Aerial Strike Army provides 2 attack helicopters that applies suppression on defenders behind their walls before they reach our troops. Mortars help kill defenders faster. The MRL can clear packs of defenders very quickly with its volley of rockets. All three have great synergy together.

We aren’t asking for free premium TT. We just want better TT that work together with our formations and have munition buffs apply too.

3). The shorter duration times for expeditions and the TT with munition synergy and coalition. Is what makes us favor shipyard level 12 the most. We also get 2x aerial strikes per trip too. Level 15 just gives us 1x TT and needs 2 days.

 

[oddin]

I wrote something and Harlem quoted my post but tagged Krispy Crane, yet you gave the answer instead Abhorsen! Thanks mate for covering everybody here (I am agreeing 100% with everything you wrote )

I would like to add two things:
1. Coalitions require 16 national goods each. For 3 Offensive coalitions, we need 48 goods. If you are a lego striker, you need vast amounts of tea and wood. This cannot be covered by mp battles nor Marco Polo.
2. The type of questions you guys make, shows that you play the game here and there. Nothing like we do. Harlem you are invited to Greeks Reborn. See with your own eyes how we do battle and talk about the every day gaming habits. I promise it will be interesting!

 

[Abhorsen]

I wrote something and Harlem quoted my post but tagged Krispy Crane, yet you gave the answer instead Abhorsen! Thanks mate for covering everybody here (I am agreeing 100% with everything you wrote )

I would like to add two things:
1. Coalitions require 16 national goods each. For 3 Offensive coalitions, we need 48 goods. If you are a lego striker, you need vast amounts of tea and wood. This cannot be covered by mp battles nor Marco Polo.
2. The type of questions you guys make, shows that you play the game here and there. Nothing like we do. Harlem you are invited to Greeks Reborn. See with your own eyes how we do battle and talk about the every day gaming habits. I promise it will be interesting!

Sorry - I didn’t mean to slide in there for your questions and response to Harlem. I just figure I’d chime in as I think we’re all on the same page here for players. I support all your ideas too, Oddin.

 

[Harlems369th]

It's an open forum question, anyone can answer.

@oddin keep in mind that questions are phrased specifically to be open for all answers, what may seem obvious might not be so for others, so this line of questioning is to help have a consistent place to reference back to at any point in time.

ex. "why did we make X change?" "Go back and reference the responses from Y thread"

This covers both players and even developers to help understand the whys in player habits, it's not an admission in lack of play. There are cases where even data shows that players use a specific strategy/unit in a particular way and it's pretty popular, but it may not be utilized the way we think it should be or built it to be, so these types of discussions are important.

 

[Der BabyHund]

I just wanted to stress that the 48 NTGs figure above is PER WAR. Many players war 3x a week—that’s 144 NTGs per week. I agree with the posts above that you cannot get that amount from MP and Marco.

 

[Harlems369th]

I just wanted to stress that the 48 NTGs figure above is PER WAR. Many players war 3x a week—that’s 144 NTGs per week. I agree with the posts above that you cannot get that amount from MP and Marco.

That and the fact that NTG shipments are random, despite having better drops than they originally did, doesn't feel great when you're trying to get into a war at a rapid pace. Thanks for sharing!

 

[oddin]

It's an open forum question, anyone can answer.

@oddin keep in mind that questions are phrased specifically to be open for all answers, what may seem obvious might not be so for others, so this line of questioning is to help have a consistent place to reference back to at any point in time.

ex. "why did we make X change?" "Go back and reference the responses from Y thread"

This covers both players and even developers to help understand the whys in player habits, it's not an admission in lack of play. There are cases where even data shows that players use a specific strategy/unit in a particular way and it's pretty popular, but it may not be utilized the way we think it should be or built it to be, so these types of discussions are important.

i only said that as a joke but text can be misunderstood . No issue at all from my side