Greece: The Nation of Suck

ivan.

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Okay, I originally planned on making a post on this topic last week but figured someone else would beat me to it. But then I remembered no one is playing as Greek so I have to do it.

Straight up, what the fusiler is the rationale behind the nation balancing in the 3.0 Update??? Before this update the nations with the most needed buffs were the Chinese, the Brits with their loot bonus and archer AI, and most of all the Greeks with well, ...everything. Come December 2nd after many months of patience and anticipation and us dozen Greek players learn that nothing's changed.

The German, British, and Chinese all got their needed buffs and yet the Greek nation which was already obsolete before this update didn't receive any net benefits. The bombshell news? Greek unique cavalry damage bonus is increased by 5% and yet their hit-point bonus is reduced by 5%. That's all folks! Seriously.. how does this even constitute as a nation rebalance when you consider the all other nations that needed buffs got positives, and the nation which needed the greatest overhaul simply got a flip in its cavalry stats.

In fact, I would even argue that this flip towards greater damage at the cost of hit points is even worse than before. I'm actually impressed how they somehow managed to make it worse that it already was. Now these Companion tanks are trying too hard to be like artillery but failing miserably. And they're just as dumb as before but now even easier to pick off by anti-tank guns with their hit-points nerfed. At least my artillery knows not to charge at them head on and instead shoot from range. I mean tanks suck to begin with, and calling the Greek uniques advantageous is like being the prom-queen of the short bus.

And their hitpoints nerf make them even a worser unit now to donate as defense. I don't need an extra 5% to shoot at one of the enemy's riflemen. The French tanks with their greater hitpoints occupy the enemy longer and buy more time for garrisons to spawn. Player's may have their own preference when requesting Korean/Chinese/British archers for defense, but no one's going to specifically request a Companion tank over a French one. I mean they're probably the rarest unit in the game (for good reason). No one even knows to request one, and when I do donate one they act like it's some urban legend but later learn it's only a suckier version of their own French tanks.

Mind you, that this nation re-balance doesn't even begin to address the shortcoming of the Greek nation bonus. They're ''uber'' advantage of shaving 40 minutes off a week long upgrade hasn't been changed at all. This is hands down the most pointless and worst bonus in the game. It's not even funny at this point, it's actually a pretty sick joke now. And their nation bonus of 5% refund is another terrible joke. For an upgrade completion that takes nearly a week, I only see this bonus roughly three times a week with my 14 workers and when I do, I'm reminded of how awful it is. The amount I receive is less than one battle's worth; never mind my league bonus. The Brits rightfully deserved their loot bonus buff but come on, even their old 10% over multiple battles is so better than the refund I receive only when upgrades are complete.

What kind of economy is this? I don't know if the developers intended to model them after their modern day counterpart but they did a good job. The Greeks in this game aren't even good at what their supposed to be at with their purported "better architecture." Their overall design is such mess you can't even come up with an apt description to describe them. "Better Architecture"?? What is that supposed to mean. Probably the dumbest nation description in the game, which should likely tell you everything you need to know about them.

I mean if you're going to keep the stats of Greek and French cavalary as alternate forms at least do something to compensate for France's other ridiculously beneficial bonuses of additional alliance troop space and faster training time. It's not even fair, the two nations are no where near equals. Why anyone would choose Greece over France is beyond me. Their tanks are a worse version of artillery and they're not even good at their supposed nation adavantage. Literally the champions of suck.

At this point its obvious that the Greeks have the sole title as the worst nation in the game. With the Chinese mercenary buff its not even close anymore. Look at the leader board and count how many Greek players there are in the top 50. Forget fingers on your hands, you have enough ears or eyes to count to 2. There's a reason no one's as stupid as I am playing as the Greeks. I'm just waiting for the day that'll never come where I can comfortably say I'm Greek without the embarrassment. December 2nd was not that day.


TL;DR: Greece sucks.
 

Quovatis

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I don't disagree with you, but the merc buff for Chinese didn't do much. How often will you be able to take advantage of 6 mercs? Not every battle, that's for sure.
 

polo1967

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I feel your pain (but not as bad). I've been playing Chinese since day one and I stuck with it because Im not one to chase after every nation that is "strongest at the moment". Although I dont think that nations need to be equal or balanced, they shouldnt be this awful (in your case). I love this game but they really missed on the advantages of each nation. You cant look back at history and say that this game reflects the true strength of each nation and their contributions in the art of war. When someone new plays this game, they shouldnt without hesitation be able to say I do not want to play as this nation or that nation. Instead of a world war its going to start looking like a civil war with everyone switching to the same nation.
 

Aurelius...

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Disappointing to hear you say that, Ivan. I had noticed that you were the top Greek player, and I was curious to know what you thought of the Greek tank.

Personally, I think they have the benefits right for the Greek nation, but the numbers wrong. The architectural bonus has to be proportional to the upgrade time, rather than a fixed bonus (as you said, and as I've said before, reducing 7-10 day upgrades by 40 minutes is a slap to the face). I've mentioned this before, but if the devs made the Greek reduction to upgrade time 15-20%, there would be a huge number of people switching to Greek. More about tanks below.

In response to the tank issue, the reason health is the only important characteristic for tanks is that they nerfed the dps/troop space so significantly that engineers could pound their way through a wall with their fists more quickly than a tank. I was convinced that the dps buff to greek tanks would be helpful. I don't request tanks, but if I did, I would likely request Greek tanks (at least I thought so before reading your post).

So message to devs:

1. Read this post.
2. Take it seriously.
3. Buff the greeks.
4. Buff tank dps (across the board and more dramatically vs. walls).

(If you're concerned about tank armies five starring bases with one click, trade some health for dps.)
 

Hunter Killer

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I was Greek up to IA until 3 months ago so I know what you're talking about.

But if we think seriously about this a little bit, this is part of the business model. New players are meant to be lured into Greeks (shorter build time and refund in early ages is great), Chinese (1 extra worker) and Japanese (TC that shoots).

The point is really to make you switch nations and spend crowns. If they made one nation strong from early to late ages, they'll be cutting down their revenue. It's all about the money, money, money...
 

Aurelius...

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I have a significant amount of respect for people who fight with the underpowered nations. Just thought I'd mention that fact.
 

Ravenlord

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They could trade health for dps or they could buff nations' defenses. Oh, they've already buffed defenses - NOW GIVE BACK OUR DPS THAT YOU NERFED EARLIER THIS YEAR!!!
 

Ravenlord

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I was going to point out, Ivan, that your nerfed Greek tank is still stronger than my Brit or Roman tank - but then I remembered I'm Brit and Roman - so I'll shut up.

I feel for you man.
 
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FroggyKilla

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Nov 25, 2015
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I'm not any sort of Greek player in particular, but I can detect a fundamental flaw with playing the Greeks: They don't have a strong end game.

Their two UAs (Refund & Increased Construction Free Zone) become useless once you are maxed out. Needless to say that is no reason not to select a nation, but the other nations have some sort of an end game besides their UU. A desperate need for a rework should be inclined.

Their new UA would be: Patronage & Better Architecture.
Unique Ability One: Donated Troops grant a Free +3 Trade Goods to donor and receiver. These trade goods are random, and are granted to the donor that fills the Alliance Gate.
Reason: The Greeks were composed of many City-States, each of them vying for power. With such competition, they had become united in their defense against the Persians. However, they've started to kill each other again with the Peloponnesian War. In Dominations, the Greeks will celebrate their patronage with trade goods.
Effects: This may incline players to donate larger troops such as Heavy Cavalry/Tanks or Siege units (don't know if a Heavy Tank would fit) to fill up the Greek player's Alliance Gate. Note: I do think this might be a little "iffy" of a rework suggestion for this first UA.

Unique Ability Two: Obviously the 5% refund now becomes a 15% cost reduction (Walls anybody?). Greek players now get a 4h free zone at the Iron Age and get +4h with every increasing age. So that's now a whole day at Industrial Age? Fair to me. Passives that will die off eventually should receive an uber buff.
Reason: This is more of a buff/merging than a rework, however necessary. Maybe increase exponentially to get that day at Industrial Age.
Effects: An actual economic boost that can be taken advantage of without losing revenue kappa.

UU: Stays the same, but revert that god awful change.

No person should be punished for playing the Feedks. Anyone who plays the Feedks has my sentiment.
 
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Ravenlord

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Listen, it could be worse. The Greek Nation in Dominations could reflect real-life Greece and no matter how much raiding you do you end up with absolutely no resources in your markets/mills.

On the plus side, with no resources available, every other player would bypass your base and your traps would never be sprung! Silver linings people - look for them.
 

Hunter Killer

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If that was based on real life, Greeks and Romans should have disappeared after classical age. And Japanese and Germans in global age should not have an army to attack anymore. They would only be allowed to defend.
 

Tipek

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Unless you're actually Chinese. Nearly all of them have hundreds of thousands of crowns to make use of an extra mercenary. At least BHG has a sense of humor.
 

Radzeer

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May 2, 2015
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5 mins or even 40 mins for IA upgrades is just useless, greek tank is still better as the other ones, bar the French, 5% refund is laughable if you consider that 90%-95% of your resources are coming from loot, where the Brits do have 15% loot bonus. There is still a small advantage with the generals, who could be revived a bit earlier (if you send the generals in for finishing the base up and the general meets and ambush trap, it cannot be reused (takes 10-15mins to heal)- while the greek general can be reactivated as healing for 40 mins is for free).
If NEXON would check their databases, I am sure they do not find any lunatic, who has changed to Greece in EA or IA. But they will find thousands switching from Greeks to Germans, French and Brits. It would be an indicator for them that the Greeks need a buff. But, instead of that they will nerf the French, Romans and Germans...

The Greeks shall have a Larger Storehouse by 20% and get 5% (or even 10%) shorter build times - increased by 2% for each age advancement. Then they would see people switching to greeks in IA and then switching back after a few upgrades. Which would be a great income for them... They need a nation which is not very good in army power, but clearly the best in economy.
 

FroggyKilla

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5 mins or even 40 mins for IA upgrades is just useless, greek tank is still better as the other ones, bar the French, 5% refund is laughable if you consider that 90%-95% of your resources are coming from loot, where the Brits do have 15% loot bonus. There is still a small advantage with the generals, who could be revived a bit earlier (if you send the generals in for finishing the base up and the general meets and ambush trap, it cannot be reused (takes 10-15mins to heal)- while the greek general can be reactivated as healing for 40 mins is for free).
If NEXON would check their databases, I am sure they do not find any lunatic, who has changed to Greece in EA or IA. But they will find thousands switching from Greeks to Germans, French and Brits. It would be an indicator for them that the Greeks need a buff. But, instead of that they will nerf the French, Romans and Germans...

The Greeks shall have a Larger Storehouse by 20% and get 5% (or even 10%) shorter build times - increased by 2% for each age advancement. Then they would see people switching to greeks in IA and then switching back after a few upgrades. Which would be a great income for them... They need a nation which is not very good in army power, but clearly the best in economy.
Has this been confirmed? Is so, I'm not a fan of the Storehouse capacity boost. It would be good with Temple of Tikal (an underused wonder in my opinion) and Banking, but it just allows people to steal more trade goods from you provided you do fill up to the brink.
 

JuDomines

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Actually Greeks are still there. We in UE finance them, but they stick around :)
 

Motaz Tarek

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Apr 19, 2015
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i guess its BHG's way to make every1 choose greeks at iron age where upgrades take few mins thinking that the 5 mins bonus is awesome, thren get shocked at later ages where upgrades take days and weeks so u get to choose either pay crowns for nation change or write a post on forums asking for a buff as u did now and i did before, however I couldn't take it to play with greeks (their companions were even weaker in damage but more in health than the normal cavarly before the cavalry nerf) so i changed to romans
one word of advice, dont hope for a change cuz i guess its the way how they force people to waste their first chance of revolution for 500 crowns and double the price for the next revolutions
 
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