Opinion on economic benefits

Teofrostus

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Hello all,

I've just started playing this game and have come from similar games such as Clash of Clans. Since I've just started and haven't gotten very far, I've started reading some guides on the forums to help me make some decisions. However, as I read through the guides, it seemed like many of them mention economy as an important factor in this game. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but in the end, doesn't your economy not matter much at all? Typically, in games like this, if you're looking for resources, you take them from other players, since raiding will (and even though I'm only in the bronze age, already has) generate tons more income than any other source.

That being said, it feels like the following would be the best choices for Wonders (keeping end game in mind):

Bronze
Acropolis
  • Adds defensive capabilities. Nothing else in this age gives any "end game" capabilities
Classical
Colosseum
  • Adds defensive capabilities.
  • Adds offensive capabilities. Although once per day seems largely useless, but if some sort of Alliance War is implemented, once per day could be very important.
Terra Cotta Army
  • Pick this one if Castles are super important in defense. Since I'm only in Bronze Age, I have no idea how useful Castles are.
  • Pick this one if the offense of Terra Cotta Army is incredibly useful.
Gunpowder Age
This one is a tossup. Everything other than Temple of Tikal seems like it could be useful.

Nations
Again, I'm still in the Bronze Age, so this is just an opinion based on the Nations sticky. Here's my list in order:

Romans
  • More army supply means more attacking power.
  • Of the cons listed on the Nations sticky, only the lack of defensive bonuses actually matters.
  • Comparing to other nations, more troops should overcome the defensive bonuses listed.
  • Unless the increase in troop capacity is very small, this Nations would take the #1 spot.
Germans
  • The ability to use Rally more often allows you to pick apart the enemy defenses more rapidly
  • Again, only con is the lack of defense bonus.
  • However, compared to other nations, using rally more often will allow you to overcome enemy defense bonuses
Chinese
  • The extra citizen is not useful end game.
  • The extra defenders are helpful.
  • It's probably a tossup for me between Chinese and Japanese for 3rd
Japanese
  • Peace treaty length is not useful
  • Additional defensive bonuses are okay.
  • It's probably a tossup for me between Chinese and Japanese for 3rd
Greeks
  • Reduced costs bonus is useless end game.
  • The only reason this nation is above the French and British is due to the comment in the Nations sticky: "This Nation boasts a powerful cavalry Troop that's arguably one of the strongest unique units available"
British
  • More loot is just as useless as reduced costs. For the same percentage, increase loot is actually worse (10% decrease to costs (9/10 * cost) is the same as 11% increase in loot (10/9))
  • Unless the loot bonus is larger than the reciprocal of the cost reduction, this Nation would fall below Greeks.
  • The unit listed seems like it could be useful for destroying defensive troops though.
French
  • Fast army training is largely useless end game, unless time becomes a critical factor in future content (short times for Alliance Wars, very short timed quests, etc)
  • This nation could move up a spot if the Chevalier proves incredibly useful.
Okay, so these are my opinions. I'd like to close by asking if there's anything terribly wrong with my reasoning. Is there any reason in this game why economy could actually be important in the end game?
 

Skillz

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This is very well done Teofrostus. Everything you have stated is correct and i wholeheartedly agree with you on everything. I love the fact that you have written every benefit and con for each nation nicely so that everyone can see it.
Also you are correct in most games like this although the farms and caravans (resource generators) are very useless in the long run seeing as how most of your resources if not all of your resources will be obtained from looting. These building are useless to upgrade which is why my favorite method in the game is to upgrade the age as soon as possible and during the wait period i have to wait while town center is upgrading i can upgrade anything else like research, walls, defensive structures and resource storages. By this time i am usually the required level to upgrade the age and i go ahead with it. Upgrading everything before upgrading the town center is really a waste of time and time is money :p
But as you know everyone has a right to their opinions, so they choose to say that the roads and other resource generators are extremely important. Only use i find for them is when I've completely run out of resources but honestly even at that point you can just hunt animals and the building are useless.
Although I'm sure once i reach enlightenment age and i have maxed everything out then i will upgrade the resource generators and probably make a good deal from them but by then they will be completely useless since i will have upgrade everything and i just need resources to make armies and that you can also get from looting.
Just my 2 cents
 

Jericho

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I really don't think "end game" is something we should be really thinking. I'm more of the looks of the buildings and the way it could help you progress. I don't think non-premium players are able to reach "end game" even with 6 months of play(take, clash of clans for reference). If they can then there is something tricky about the game design.

So instead of thinking what's really powerful in "end game", rather just thinking what could be helpful along the way and really let you ENJOY the game. I really like German which put a lot of maneuverability of troops, they invented lightning strike after all. Also I like the British that the range in the archer come in really handy it allow me to pick off balista and sometimes get towers without being shot (I know they are all range 5 but it happens to me, trust me) extra loot means my time to be consumed on resource gathering is reduced. I wish I picked French since I like the look of their Calvary and also I would love to fight more often and get more loot. And man I just think Roman and Greek's architecture are the most stunning!

Like I said, there is not one nation which is the best nor the worst. I LOVE THIS GAME BETTER THAN COC BECAUSE IT LET YOU CHOOSE, AND EVEN THE TOP PLAYERS CANNOT HAVE EVERYTHING OTHER PEOPLE HAVE BECAUSE EVENTUALLY WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT AREN'T WE?

Thanks for reading
 
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Captain Guthix

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I personally chose the Japanese mainly because their buildings look nice, but I disagree with the peace treaty. While it may be useless end game, about 80-90% of the game is NOT end game. If you want to save up resources to upgrade something but you keep getting raided just before you get enough, the extended peace treaty can help tremendously. And it's not like the peace treaty locks you from attacking, just keep it up if you really want it. Plus you can't go wrong with a town center that fights back. The German's power is great, but what if I want to have my troops attacking separate targets? In MY OPINION, Japanese takes 2nd.
 

Whatwhat

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I'm a non premium player and there is no base in this game I can't wipe clean.
 

Jericho

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Then I must be able to see you at the leader board? And since you didn't play you shouldn't be exceeding level 40? Sorry I couldn't find such player there. Maybe I misunderstood you...
 

Skillz

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He could very well have dropped trophies if he is one of the best players. Also he might not be the best but his attacking skills outrank the others with tactics and capable of defeating even the top players.
 

Teofrostus

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My post here isn't really about personal enjoyment, looks, or play style, as that would be a largely subjective conversation littered with nothing but opinions. Instead, I want to make an objective list of nations based on end-game power. My reasoning for choosing "end-game" as the metric for establishing "best" nation is a natural choice, since, as the game progresses, more and more players will be stuck there waiting for upgrades.

To help understand my ranking metric, take, for example, an RPG with a permanent skill level system (if you spend a skill point, it's spent forever, with no resets). One could argue that it's "easier" to get to level 99 if I take skills which boost my exp gain, and thus exp boosting skills are the best place to spend my skill points. However, if the game is a competitive game, eventually players will plateau, peaking in power, at which point those who took competitive oriented skills would be at a clear advantage. Will exp boosting skills get you to the end game faster than other players? Sure. Will they be helpful at the end? Definitely not.

To summarize, if your goal is to have fun while playing this game, then there's no need for discussion; you should just do whatever floats your boat and never regret any choices you make. However, if you are a type of player who is concerned with picking the "best" skills and playing the competitive game, then there needs to be some way of rationally and objectively ranking what is best. Even if the ranking may not be clear, there is merit in sharing opinions and deliberating about the benefits of each skill.
 
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Jericho

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The fact that he stated being a non-premium player means he didn't pay. I'm just wondering if that's the case also he seems have evolved to quite later ages so where did he get all the resources from? He must has been get crown from an "unofficial" channel.

If that's the case, it's just hilarious when people actually boast while cheating (some may call it hacking or whatever)
 

Jericho

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Where is whatwhat's comment? where he states that he's a non premium player and can wipe out anyone? What are you afraid of cheater / hacker? Can you please answer the question where did you get your resource to level up that quickly?
 

dbukalski

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I cant see whatwhats comments i missed them. But what what is from one of the markets that opened in november or something like that. Hes been playing about twice as long as most people. For sure he was maxed out enlightenment(not sure about walls never seen his base). At this point hes for sure midway through industrial.

I dont know his rank because i dont see a whatwhat on leaderboard.

Some legit players go 5 tactjcs, general on juicy targets which may look like cheaters do. If on the other hand he goes kitchen sink attack every battle then hes probably a cheater. Which combined with him being asian(probably) and deleting his post puts up several red flags for me.

His long history of posting on the forum complaining about cheaters counters some of thise red flags. So either hes a cheating hipocryte. Or legit player that didnt like the attention? Or started cheating recently and then was like oh s.hit their onto me im out of here

My intuition says he turned to cheating around the time he stopped posting on the forums when he said screw it
 

dbukalski

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Teofrostus - there are players who bristle at the idea they made the wrong choices in games. These + people who really dont care are in the do whats fun camp. Its an easy position to take. No thought needed.

Im impressed with ur analysis in the first post and ur attitude about strategy in the next post. Most of the best contributors to the forum have joined usa elite alliances. Redgar, hunter killer, gambrinus, jwinn and myself. Were still missing a few hold outs (eddie, porcupine im looking at u)

I dont know what age and medal count ur at but if ur bronze age 200 medals i dont care. My line(phone app) id is dbukalski contact me on there and well get u into usa elite 4. Normally thats 800 medals to join but for u well make an exception. U can work ur way up to e3, 2 and finally 1 from there.

Well get u plugged into our line chat (4 alliances 190 players) and ull be able to strategise directly with us there.

U come at a time when the game balance is about to change drastically. If u havent reached the point in the game where u select ur nation hold off for a bit until we can see what they do

Right now france is literally 7x better than any other nation. U could add all the nation bonuses into one and france would still be #1. If 600 crowns to change nation isnt a big deal for u and u have access to training blessing then going france for now is still probably worth it

Ur nation analysis is solid but will change so i wont go too deep into it for now

Wonders. Unlike locked skill rpgs. In this game u can change wonders and 600 crowns ($5) isnt too steep that a strategic change isnt beyond reason.

Bronze - acropolis is more amazing than most people realize. Probably strongest wonder in the game for defense and possibly strongest wonder period

Hanging gardens is the best for offense which i didnt realize until last week and dont intend on switching for 600 crowns just yet until i see all balance changes. But once they do theres a non zero chance i will change to this

I still havent decided if acropolis defense value = medals = gold is better in this environment where defense has diminished value or if hanging gardens minor more cider = more mercenaries = more gold and medals farmed is better

Hanging gardens = 25% faster tree farming for cider. Cider = training blessing and the best mercenaries. Its not a massive boost. But as long as defense means so little for now this is a great choice and a hidden jewel. Better the further into the game u go. Acropolis starts out strong and stays strong....for defense...which mostly doesnt matter now. But will as they fix the game, and add alliance wars and challenges. Hanging gardens also has benefit of being outside the box. Mostly considered inferior by most people

Classical age

Terra corta - best offense wonder if u want to increase ur ability to completely wipe a base out once a day. The army upgrades as ur army upgrades. I believe its 10 infantry and 10 bow which is a massive increase early and drops to 15% increase in army size by industrial. Which is still powerful

French 24 reinforcements + 20 terra cotta + 135 industrial and u have 179 troops for a big atack. Castle and barracks hp doesnt matter. Army dps is sooo high and defense structure hp so low it doesnt matter. Ur defense will depend in distance enemy has to travel from one to the other. And wall hp 26,533 for lvl13 walls

Castle is 10780hp and terra cotta adds like 2k to that so like 1 more second to destroy it. Basically once a defense structure is being attacked its 1 second to destroy. Any boost to their hp is worthless

Notre dam is overrated. Almost all ur grinding will be to upgrade walls (3.3 billion gold) and notre dam doesnt give u discount on those. It will give u like 10% discount in the 500 mil it costs for all other upgrades combined. So basically notre dam is nice worth 50 mil resources. Which is solid. But offense wonder which also earn u gold. And medals which = higher league bonus(like 400k combined bonus for 3200 medals). Even if u win 1 battle a day from an offense wonder ur talking half a mil in resources a day

And then one day ur fully upgraded and notre dam is worthless. The best strategy might involved starting as notre dam and switching alter for 600 crowns but i dont think so

If offense = gold and medals = gold. Then coloseum is hands down the best.

Coloseum - its gladiator ability is the most powerful. For like 5 seconds or something...i should really time this...it nearly doubles ur army dps

It doesnt require planning like the terracotta army. Deploy ur army. And if u have an oh shit moment pop gladiator and watch ur army melt the enemy. This means winning a fight...u unexpectadly were going to lose = gold/medals. And save ur army from destruction which means less time rebuilding losses to strart the next battle = gold/ medal

Coloseum also has best defense ability. It is 2x a garrison. Once u build it it will upgrade without further investment. And it has 4x the area of coverage. It basically covers almost the entire map. Better defense = more medals saved = more gold

Forbidden city = better defense vs sniping attacks. Worse defense vs 5 star attacks. In the current meta sniping is main form of attack so fc = more medals saved than coloseum. But no extra offense and worse defense at the highest medal ranges where 5 star attempts are frequent

Gunpowder

Taj mahal - 2% loot bonus on what u collect. But not on league bonus. League bonus is about half the gold i collect so for me that would be a 1% bonus. So about 15mil gold by the time ive maxed my walls. The mercenary is random which is bad cuz most people use mercenaries in role specific to their strategy. If u get raiders, cavalr, infantry could be nearly useless. for comparisons. Industrial mercenaries are like 10 trade goods. So once a day u get 10 trade goods which isnt too bad im not a fan of the random part. The good mercenaries take cider and diamonds. Of the 5 mercenaries the taj might randomly give u. Theres a total of 47 trade goods combined. 16 of those trade goods are cider diamonds. Which is gonna be the equivalent of 3.2 diamonds/cider per day from taj. And those 3.2 valuable trade goods are used randomly for u

The hanging gardens i talked about before give u 25% more cider(cider and diamonds are the most important). Over course of the day of farming u can collec 3 more cider on average with full control in their use. Of course that requires farming all day which i and most people dont do. And taj 3.4 is gonna be some diamonds thrown in which are highest value.

So taj > hanging gardens by a little bit probably. Buy where hanging gardens is best offense wonder for bronze age. Taj is not the best for gunpowder

Tikal is for sure worst of the gp wonders. Defense losses dont amount to enough to make a refund worth it. Increased trade good capacity helps a little on offense. Fill up on cider at work have more for tb when u get home to.

Angkor - the best defensive wonder. 20% heal every second in a big area much more powerful than versaille 10% one time hp boost. But it requires a defense built around it. Anyone thats every fought a base with one of these knows how brutal it is to kill heavy and normal tanks while this thing is healing them.

Versailles is consistent, effects entire map for defender 10% hp boost. Slows enemy down so ur defense has more time to damage them. Doesnt require building base around it





Tldr - my recomendation

Acropolis
Coloseum
Angkor or versailles
 

JuDomines

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You did not mention Angkor gives 5 trade goods a day, very often 2-3 diamonds. Knowing how diamonds are important for training Blessing, this makes Angkor a clear winner over Versailles. Versailles is annoying when i attack it because it often slow me enough to makes me miss the 5 stars and a couple of raid I even lost my army but that's all. In short Versailles is good at pissing of opponents but not so good at helping you (it's a french wonder, after all ;-) )

Also, one note on Notre Dame, which is super useful in Gunpowder age, when the upgrade cost begin to be really high and training blessing is not yet available. That would be interesting to know the amount of gold/food ND saved me through the ages.
 

Redgar

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Yea, I even tried to bribe Porc with gifting him 30 medals lol ))) join us may be we'll create forum alliance within usa elite group someday, if there is at least 50 active forum posters.
 

Redgar

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Clash of Clans skills help alot, but there is some wrong assumptions based on this game specifics which basically you cannot know being at the beginning.

So currently France is so good starting from EA that its features are better than all other nations combined for an active attacker. Even though it expects nerf, it may remain as one of the strongest nations out there. Germans, Rome, Brits and French will decide who is the best after the next balance patch and it will vary wih time anyways.

While rally itself is badly implemented and game does not favour returning armies, german and even rome's features have marginal effect now. I'd say that brits are better now than those two and they'll be buffed.

Regarding wonders, Acropolis is a good strategic choice, but hanging gardens in fact also. If it gave ability to collect trees and mines with 1 worker, it's be a super cool wonder to switch. Acropolis has marginal effect in higher ages as defence as a whole actually.

Colliseum is good, no doubt, but his attacking buff becomes more important than his defensive capabilities in the higher ages, while once a day is nothing much. Having Notredam and swithing it later could be a good investment and forbidden city is like the best end game wonder noway be sharing the first place with BG (ufter factory on TB) and kremlin.

In general, try to crown up your way to EA as fast as you can, so things will be more clear for you
 

Quovatis

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hanging gardens is actually useful if you play a lot, as you can collect valuable cider more often.
 
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