Troop/tactics balance problem

[Nikolay]

It's been two months since the release of the v12.19 update. Bombers and Demolition leave no chance for the defending player, even if he has an excellent Museum and Council for defense. There are no countermeasures. As a result, the defense players suffer, they are just punching dolls. And the attackers have relaxed and are losing interest, because they can play with a mug of beer in one hand.

@Harlems369th @TheWise @BHGAustin @BHGSarah when will the update come out that will nerf Bombers and the Mongol coalition? Where is the promised rebalance? After 12.20, the attackers are gaining momentum and strengthening the Showcase. Defense players get very few bonuses from it. Also, now there is a Museum event to search for artifacts of war and many attackers have already found artifacts with 3-4 identical benefits for damage/hit points of bombers. At the same time, the defense players already have everything they need and are running into the 85% limit.
This is no longer funny, the situation is turning into a big problem

 

[Rollin]

So to that point, I'd love to contribute to a discussion on the game's balance. These are the positive conversations that influence the choices our team makes. Please also understand that just because you see others that agree with you, does not mean there are not those who disagree. @Rollin I've had this situation with you a while back, you were telling me one thing about the game's balance and another player told me the complete opposite. In that situation, most changes we could make would be hated by someone. That means we have to consider data from multiple sources. Yes, we go on Reddit because we want to know if people like our game. We read threads on the forums because we want to improve and your feedback fuels that; but there are many differing opinions and internal data points that we have to consider as we navigate the changes we make. Please try to understand and have some more empathy for the folks I work with.

@Rollin I've had this situation with you a while back, you were telling me one thing about the game's balance and another player told me the complete opposite

Then communicate with me ? Or with the community @Davis - The Emissary ? Or start a discussion, question things. How do you figure that out ? Why would it be too strong ? it will benefit you in the end and at the same time the game and the players
I spend weeks watching the World Wars, the tactics that are often used, and whether they can be countered. As soon as a tactic becomes unblockable and too many people are using it, I perceive it as too strong. it is very simple

There are always players who will claim that mortars and bombers are too weak because they simply have no idea how to attack

The other problem ? Too many cheat museums with perfect stats, especially among defensive players. This distorts the effective defensive strength because players think, "Wow, he's impossible to destroy." Sure, if you cheating and have five artifacts with perfect 5x 15% stats ? Of course. But that doesn't represent the averagely strong defensive player. I know you've done a lot so far, but there are still enough of this kind running around

For example, I said that extra buildings break the balance in the game and it is way too strong. That is a fact. Nighthawk Hangar provides one additional bomber or two additional fighters, which is a 25% offensive buff. The additional fortress provides one additional TT (from 4 to 5), which is a 25% offensive buff. How do you want to balance purchasable reinforcements in the top allys ? It seems like everyone uses both buildings permanently

First, I want to address releases and the resulting bugs. I've said this earlier but I don't think everyone fully understands. Our code base was originally created over 10 years ago. The then team created an incredible game, but there are systems that have been implemented since that they hadn't even dreamed would exist, so they didn't build those systems to accommodate or work with all of the many newer features. Some systems have remained relatively untouched since then. All of this code coexists, which is what causes the large majority of the issues we are all forced to face.

I understand a lot of things and know that it takes time and I give that, that is no problem at all

Next, I'd like to address the blame you seem to think belongs on our QA team. Release stability is a studio wide effort - no one group should take the all of the blame just because you need someone to be angry with. Our collective efforts produce the end result.

You are to blame because you often publish changes that are far too drastic. How many times have we warned you ? And told you, be careful, it's way too strong ? and unfortunately it is not the first time

Believe me, I would help you for free... only ask

 

[Seek]

Then communicate with me ? Or with the community @Davis - The Emissary ? Or start a discussion, question things. How do you figure that out ? Why would it be too strong ? it will benefit you in the end and at the same time the game and the players
I spend weeks watching the World Wars, the tactics that are often used, and whether they can be countered. As soon as a tactic becomes unblockable and too many people are using it, I perceive it as too strong. it is very simple

There are always players who will claim that mortars and bombers are too weak because they simply have no idea how to attack

The other problem ? Too many cheat museums with perfect stats, especially among defensive players. This distorts the effective defensive strength because players think, "Wow, he's impossible to destroy." Sure, if you cheating and have five artifacts with perfect 5x 15% stats ? Of course. But that doesn't represent the averagely strong defensive player. I know you've done a lot so far, but there are still enough of this kind running around

For example, I said that extra buildings break the balance in the game and it is way too strong. That is a fact. Nighthawk Hangar provides one additional bomber or two additional fighters, which is a 25% offensive buff. The additional fortress provides one additional TT (from 4 to 5), which is a 25% offensive buff. How do you want to balance purchasable reinforcements in the top allys ? It seems like everyone uses both buildings permanently



I understand a lot of things and know that it takes time and I give that, that is no problem at all



You are to blame because you often publish changes that are far too drastic. How many times have we warned you ? And told you, be careful, it's way too strong ? and unfortunately it is not the first time

Believe me, I would help you for free... only ask

Well seems to me there is allot of agreement among veteran players about game issues. A big hint for folks, if even the dumb old grunt Seek can see the problems ya got a real problem cause I can barely figure out my new iPhone. Bigger hint something is wrong when you have big group of veteran players that really understand the game pointing out the same problems with details and very well put explanations KC Lust Nikoly Rollin and many more top players all saying samething.

Still all the responses we get are You Don’t Understand Problems With Code, We Will Change Something when we want too, someone else can use the inferior D mythical artifacts , you don’t like then take time off aka quit, which add all this up seems to give impression that players mean nothing to BHG.

Again my statements are not aimed at one person or group of BHG. So no feelers should be hurt. This my view as player and customer of a BHG product.

 

[stas]

This is how balanced the game is right now lol

It doesn't mean that just because YOU can do it, the majority of players can too

 

[Pokusay]

Let me make a few things clear, and please take some time to read my thoughts and process what I've said. @Nikolay @Seek @Rollin @King Crimson and anyone else who feels similarly to them - please read.

First, I want to address releases and the resulting bugs. I've said this earlier but I don't think everyone fully understands. Our code base was originally created over 10 years ago. The then team created an incredible game, but there are systems that have been implemented since that they hadn't even dreamed would exist, so they didn't build those systems to accommodate or work with all of the many newer features. Some systems have remained relatively untouched since then. All of this code coexists, which is what causes the large majority of the issues we are all forced to face. If we were to rip out entire portions of that original code, we'd see massive bug outbreaks upon releasing the new version, because of the incredible complexity and expanse of the DomiNations code base. A perfect example of this on a small scale is the recent work to refactor the troop donation system. Yes there were absolutely bugs that resulted from this work, but we now have also upgraded a part of the code base that hadn't been touched for many years, making the system more stable as a result. To rebuild everything from the ground up would take an incredible amount of resources and is not a business decision to take lightly.

Next, I'd like to address the blame you seem to think belongs on our QA team. Release stability is a studio wide effort - no one group should take the all of the blame just because you need someone to be angry with. Our collective efforts produce the end result. Be mad at all of us. I assure you that none of us want to work overtime to get our features working properly. We care about the success of this game as much as you do - our careers depend on it. And of all the departments to blame, you really want to choose QA? They're some of the most hardworking people who have worked overtime for many of our releases this year and are always quick to respond and work late nights when issues come up. Please refrain from offering unsolicited advice on how we run our business - this is not the space for that. The forums are a place for players to discuss the game itself, so please keep conversation to that.

So to that point, I'd love to contribute to a discussion on the game's balance. These are the positive conversations that influence the choices our team makes. Please also understand that just because you see others that agree with you, does not mean there are not those who disagree. @Rollin I've had this situation with you a while back, you were telling me one thing about the game's balance and another player told me the complete opposite. In that situation, most changes we could make would be hated by someone. That means we have to consider data from multiple sources. Yes, we go on Reddit because we want to know if people like our game. We read threads on the forums because we want to improve and your feedback fuels that; but there are many differing opinions and internal data points that we have to consider as we navigate the changes we make. Please try to understand and have some more empathy for the folks I work with.

Thanks all who read, and apologies for the novel~

Can you explain why the Machine Gun defensive turret doesn't slow down Tactical Helicopters? A Zhukov and three Tactical Helicopters are flying in a single squad, but the Zhukov slows down while the Helicopters fly at their normal speed. This is another disadvantage for Defenders.

 

[Linnéa]

Can you explain why the Machine Gun defensive turret doesn't slow down Tactical Helicopters? A Zhukov and three Tactical Helicopters are flying in a single squad, but the Zhukov slows down while the Helicopters fly at their normal speed. This is another disadvantage for Defenders.

The suppression effect of MG tower is single-target, but its damage effect is AOE. It has always been this way. Also that’s why bomber attackers sometimes put Zhukov and Tac helis in 2 different squadrons to separate them and let Zhukov attract MG tower first.

 

[Pokusay]

The suppression effect of MG tower is single-target, but its damage effect is AOE. It has always been this way. Also that’s why bomber attackers sometimes put Zhukov and Tac helis in 2 different squadrons to separate them and let Zhukov attract MG tower first.

Hi. I also use Zhukov as bait when I'm on the offensive. But they could change that so that the suppression works on multiple targets. That would make things much more difficult for the attackers.

 

[Seek]

Hi. I also use Zhukov as bait when I'm on the offensive. But they could change that so that the suppression works on multiple targets. That would make things much more difficult for the attackers.

Another thing that would that be minor is fixing Surveillance Drone to where it actually works. If I am giving up a def drone slot it needs to detect everything even commando in their armor and anything else.

 

[Pokusay]

Yes, I completely agree. After 10 seconds of Armor, this drone is useless.

 

[Pokusay]

Another thing that would that be minor is fixing Surveillance Drone to where it actually works. If I am giving up a def drone slot it needs to detect everything even commando in their armor and anything else.

I also discovered another bug. The Sniper Tower has a firing radius. But in reality, the first shot occurs when the Tactical Helicopters have flown halfway through that radius. By then, it's useless; they've already deployed Saboteurs.

 

[Mahakaal]

A general forum will never tell you what is wrong with defence , 80%+ players are attacker and out of that 90%+ wants game to play at easy level , they want victory over anything.
best is that you guys observe how after everyone having kettle drum and arm are wreaking havoc on defence .
How some nations are not even choose able now , nobody cares about cavalry buff like start of game.
How more than 50% of factory is trash , nobody uses all factory troops.Except mortars nd heli rest are trash
Problem is that you never balanced all troops ; either made them useless or overpowered
dock rewards are shit and takes more time now.
killed the game of daily league boat speedup and victory chest even after that ad fiasco.
We do not want new things , please fix these first and replays. New additions in an unbalanced ground would not make it balanced. 5 star should be exception, 4 should be norm , it is win win for all.
not to tell about the joke that you have pulled with maori mythical , only marginal better than original and on the other hand you gave tremendous boost to supermarine myth and new kettle drum myth gives 15%+ mortar attack speed even after mongols.
At this point it felt like trolling of defense players . @Davis - The Emissary, @Harlems369th.

 

[nobodyknowsthetrouble]

The defense is strong enough as it is.
I regularly see players who can only get 2 stars against offensive accounts in war or don't dare to attack 3 D at all. Not being attacked at all is no fun for the defender or their alliance, whose donated defense TT is lost unused.
In multiplayer, I see players who, despite deactivated traps and the use of their full army plus TT, are unable to flatten the entire base.

It's not about having easy victories. It's about keeping it bearable for the masses. Defense doesn't need any further buffs.

 

[Rollin]

The defense is strong enough as it is.
I regularly see players who can only get 2 stars against offensive accounts in war or don't dare to attack 3 D at all. Not being attacked at all is no fun for the defender or their alliance, whose donated defense TT is lost unused.
In multiplayer, I see players who, despite deactivated traps and the use of their full army plus TT, are unable to flatten the entire base.

It's not about having easy victories. It's about keeping it bearable for the masses. Defense doesn't need any further buffs.

wtf, this can only be a troll, stop TROLL and be nice !!

not to tell about the joke that you have pulled with maori mythical , only marginal better than original and on the other hand you gave tremendous boost to supermarine myth and new kettle drum myth gives 15%+ mortar attack speed even after mongols.

do not forget

Davinci = Figther Dmg/HP perfect line
Huye = Barrack Troop Dmg perfect line
Spitefire = Airstrip Dmg perfect line
Gemini 8 Glove (it is not even a fully defensive artifact) = Defender Movement speed it would be ok if the offensive didn't have 400-500 EDST
ASDIC = Invading General HP the worst defensive line, but its ok
Kettle Drum= 15% Mortar Attackspeed perfect line

every artifact has a very good line except the defensive one, which is either useless or weak BUT ITS OK and THEN the strongest and best defensive artifact

MAROIE WAR CLUB with general Dmg and HP, nobody needs this Line ? for the ultra strong offense as a defensive player ? or for what

It can only be a joke, BHG knows what they are doing, you can see it with all the other artifacts

@Mahakaal @Harlems369th will try to tell you that more mythical artifacts will come, but he doesn't understand that BHG deliberately destroys the best defensive artifact. I dont know why they did that but they did it

 

[nobodyknowsthetrouble]

wtf, this can only be a troll, stop TROLL and be nice !!

Wow, looks like someone can't handle facts. I'm not going to continue this discussion at this level. Welcome on my ignore list.

 

[Seek]

The defense is strong enough as it is.
I regularly see players who can only get 2 stars against offensive accounts in war or don't dare to attack 3 D at all. Not being attacked at all is no fun for the defender or their alliance, whose donated defense TT is lost unused.
In multiplayer, I see players who, despite deactivated traps and the use of their full army plus TT, are unable to flatten the entire base.

It's not about having easy victories. It's about keeping it bearable for the masses. Defense doesn't need any further buffs.

That I see as self serving post. Saying the defense is strong enough is joke. The defense player at top can not hold a star and the mid level down are about to experience this cause of release all war legendary artifacts and them obtaining mythical.

Just cause you have seen poor accounts ran by below average players failing on bases does not mean defense is over powered cause trust me at the top is not. So only reason I can see for stating defense does not need help is someone who like easy battles that require zero skill to win.

All the veteran defenders have posted and I posted how bad it is at top. So it okay to ruin our game play so poor attackers with zero skill can 5 star bases. That is a joke why even play if you don’t want a challenge.

No offense ment but I do see anyone saying defense is fine only want the easy battles or trying to troll defenders into getting forum banned.

 

[Seek]

Wow, looks like someone can't handle facts. I'm not going to continue this discussion at this level. Welcome on my ignore list.

I would say your are the one not seeing the facts after all that been posted in threads. But that is fine I am used to folks trying to keep their easy battles as self serving as that is in my view.

 

[nobodyknowsthetrouble]

That I see as self serving post. Saying the defense is strong enough is joke. The defense player at top can not hold a star and the mid level down are about to experience this cause of release all war legendary artifacts and them obtaining mythical.

Just cause you have seen poor accounts ran by below average players failing on bases does not mean defense is over powered cause trust me at the top is not. So only reason I can see for stating defense does not need help is someone who like easy battles that require zero skill to win.

All the veteran defenders have posted and I posted how bad it is at top. So it okay to ruin our game play so poor attackers with zero skill can 5 star bases. That is a joke why even play if you don’t want a challenge.

No offense ment but I do see anyone saying defense is fine only want the easy battles or trying to troll defenders into getting forum banned.

Over the last three weeks, there have been between two and nine timewars every day. This means that in 99% of wars, not all stars were won, so the defense is holding. Only the top 1% is having problems. For the other 99%, the defense is sufficient.

 

[Seek]

Over the last three weeks, there have been between two and nine timewars every day. This means that in 99% of wars, not all stars were won, so the defense is holding. Only the top 1% is having problems. For the other 99%, the defense is sufficient.

That is not representing true facts cause groups give up when they know they can’t match times or stand chance in war not to mention the fact of poor match up across the board. Top 10 can’t always fight Top 10 so you arguing time war is not taking to all the factors

No matter how you cut it offense is over powered. When at level 489 pretty dam good muse and hella showcase and hella counsel I constantly have all my Air Defense killed before first bomber flys and the turps eat up all the cgi and Sam’s how is that fair ?

Well since you say it is fine they ruin game for us I hope they ruin it for you . Since you are so plainly trying to troll we all know defense is broke you know this lol

 

[nobodyknowsthetrouble]

That is not representing true facts

Those are the only true facts. At least, those are the facts that are available to us. BHG always says that domistats does not represent the full picture, which means that there may be additional facts within BHG.

groups give up when they know they can’t match times or stand chance in war

The pre-war impression that you don't stand a chance in time war cannot be a fact. To make it a fact, you would have to fight. Otherwise, you're just stating the fact that the defense lasted.

not to mention the fact of poor match up across the board

That's a different problem. It existed before the summer and even before the last rebalance.

I constantly have all my Air Defense killed before first bomber flys and the turps eat up all the cgi and Sam’s

Once again: this is only a top 10, maybe top 50 problem. The rest of the players don't have the highly developed museums or perfect strategies.
You want your base to hold? Then go traveling. Visit an ally below the top 100 and you'll be surprised how often your base holds.

 

[Rollin]

Wow, looks like someone can't handle facts. I'm not going to continue this discussion at this level. Welcome on my ignore list.

He talks about facts, but he hasn't shown any so far

But we have facts, unlike you.

Fact 1: 400-500% EDST = 1 maybe 2 defender spawn. However, if a fight currently lasts around 1-2 minutes, there will be exactly 1 wave and then nothing more. No defensive player can counteract the high EDST

Fact 2: Demolition can ALWAYS destroy everything with 1-2 tactics except Silo, which needs 3 ? You would currently need an additional 100%-150% HP to even begin to need 3 Demolitions.

Fact 3: The Bomber players get way over 300% damage and 400% HP, and it will increase.

Fact 5: There are no more mythical defensive artifacts that would be relevant for defense, none.

Even I can get 2 stars against Defenders… just attack the city center and that's it, don't tell fairy tales here

if not then you are simply bad at the game requires skill, it is skill-based

 

[Seek]

Those are the only true facts. At least, those are the facts that are available to us. BHG always says that domistats does not represent the full picture, which means that there may be additional facts within BHG.

The pre-war impression that you don't stand a chance in time war cannot be a fact. To make it a fact, you would have to fight. Otherwise, you're just stating the fact that the defense lasted.

That's a different problem. It existed before the summer and even before the last rebalance.


Once again: this is only a top 10, maybe top 50 problem. The rest of the players don't have the highly developed museums or perfect strategies.
You want your base to hold? Then go traveling. Visit an ally below the top 100 and you'll be surprised how often your base holds.

Well you say only top 10 maybe top 50 do not matter in game if they have game ruined. This I don’t get I would like everyone not just this group or that group to enjoy the game. Now you seem to just want people that have put more
Into game to be punished have game ruined so you can advance with ease.

What sad life to wish bad onto one group so they quit so you can be a 5 star champ with bombers lol This is just sad.

Now before i get reported again I will stop replaying to your troll post now that everyone can see that