Troop/tactics balance problem

[Nikolay]

It's been two months since the release of the v12.19 update. Bombers and Demolition leave no chance for the defending player, even if he has an excellent Museum and Council for defense. There are no countermeasures. As a result, the defense players suffer, they are just punching dolls. And the attackers have relaxed and are losing interest, because they can play with a mug of beer in one hand.

@Harlems369th @TheWise @BHGAustin @BHGSarah when will the update come out that will nerf Bombers and the Mongol coalition? Where is the promised rebalance? After 12.20, the attackers are gaining momentum and strengthening the Showcase. Defense players get very few bonuses from it. Also, now there is a Museum event to search for artifacts of war and many attackers have already found artifacts with 3-4 identical benefits for damage/hit points of bombers. At the same time, the defense players already have everything they need and are running into the 85% limit.
This is no longer funny, the situation is turning into a big problem

 

[King Crimson]

I'm generally on board with D players wanting things to change but when you elitists start saying things like unskilled majority or most players don't know how to fight or don't spend on museum you lose all credibility.
The game, for the majority, is about fun. So what if they don't spend time or money on the museum - it's no-ones business but theirs.
Pour your condescending onto the forum if you have to - or better yet, make a farking better argument than running down someone else's way of playing. That's just pathetic.

 

[Mahakaal]

Hi all, just a quick message here as I don't want you to think I've forgotten about you. I had lots going on this week, but I'll do my best to be more active here next week. Really appreciate the efforts from those choosing to discuss in a civil manner.

Gentle reminder; feel free to quote any 'facts' that you would like, but everyone on the forums has the right to their opinions. I'm already seeing first hand an example of how you treat those who differ in opinion from you @Rollin. If you truly want discussion and change to take place you have to leave space for those who disagree. Otherwise we will have to remove you and anyone else who does the same from the conversation.

Hope you all have a lovely weekend~

only if you have answered the questions of rollin it would have been more civil and rational. let us see what answers you will have next week.

 

[Deosbrae]

I'm generally on board with D players wanting things to change but when you elitists start saying things like unskilled majority or most players don't know how to fight or don't spend on museum you lose all credibility.
The game, for the majority, is about fun. So what if they don't spend time or money on the museum - it's no-ones business but theirs.
Pour your condescending onto the forum if you have to - or better yet, make a farking better argument than running down someone else's way of playing. That's just pathetic.

Sounds like you're one of those players who just can't face the fact that their game understanding and attacking skill is terrible lol. NO ONE is condescending on the forum. We’re all simply stating the FACTS. Just the bad attackers and farmers can’t accept the truth that how poorly-skilled they’re. That’s more pathetic.
Like you said most players play just for fun. Then the game's balance has nothing to do with these casual players. It would be an absolute joke if decent defenders can be 5-starred by these players.

 

[Ezekiel]

Your alliance doesn’t have to deal with that kind of struggle, so of course you don’t understand what it’s like watching players fail to 5-star none defensive base

Players who even miss on an offensive base are definitely not fit to discuss the game balance. I've seen this happen sometimes — even in top 5. These players are, to some extent, more like single-player gamers. They stick to their own unique attack style, paying no heed to other players' suggestions.
The ideal game balance should be: Most players (35%) with decent museum and carefully planning can clear most medium defenders and some decent defenders with bad, outdated layouts. Those relatively skilled players (20%) should be able to clear half decent defenders and all medium defenders. Those truly skilled players (10%) should be able to clear most decent defenders and a few top defenders with mediocre layouts. Top attackers (5%) should be able to consistently clear all defenders except for the very best ones. They should struggle on the top defenders too instead of clearing them so easy like they do now. The rest players(30%) don’t have WW museum or don’t know how to attack at all or never plan their attacks. They have nothing to do with the game's WW balance.

 

[King Crimson]

Sounds like you're one of those players who just can't face the fact that their game understanding and attacking skill is terrible lol. NO ONE is condescending on the forum. We’re all simply stating the FACTS. Just the bad attackers and farmers can’t accept the truth that how poorly-skilled they’re. That’s more pathetic.
Like you said most players play just for fun. Then the game's balance has nothing to do with these casual players. It would be an absolute joke if decent defenders can be 5-starred by these players.

Ooh now that really hurts - you got me good.

So to clarify, in an effort to debunk the 'rest of us' we get a made up grading system to prove a point you believe?
Well done. I guess that's representative of the 'facts' you're all talking about.

Ps: to all the experts out there, even further condescension doesn't prove your point any better

 

[King Crimson]

Sounds like you're one of those players who just can't face the fact that their game understanding and attacking skill is terrible lol. NO ONE is condescending on the forum.

Oh, l was remiss in not pointing this out. This statement is as predictable as it is funny - but not in an I'm-laughing-with-you funny ...

 

[Ezekiel]

Ooh now that really hurts - you got me good.

So to clarify, in an effort to debunk the 'rest of us' we get a made up grading system to prove a point you believe?
Well done. I guess that's representative of the 'facts' you're all talking about.

Ps: to all the experts out there, even further condescension doesn't prove your point any better

We won't waste time enlightening or proving our point to you guys who simply don't even know how to play the game. We can never wake those who pretend to be asleep. Keep entertaining yourself and have a nice day

 

[Linnéa]

The rest players(30%) don’t have WW museum or don’t know how to attack at all or never plan their attacks. They have nothing to do with the game's WW balance.

Someone in this thread must be desperate for these players to be able to easily 5star everyone lol. They'll never stop crying and complaining about D is too OP until they reach this point.

 

[King Crimson]

We won't waste time enlightening or proving our point to you guys who simply don't even know how to play the game.

Burn!! The old if you dont know, l wont tell you - then double down on the putdowns.
So predictable.
@Seek please tell your followers to be more original and not act so wounded when someone has a different point of view.
So predictable.

Now, anyone want to get the thread back on track?

 

[King Crimson]

Someone in this thread must be desperate for these players to be able to easily 5star everyone lol. They'll never stop crying and complaining about D is too OP until they reach this point.

Really? Pretty sure this post is just the opposite. The loudest complainers are easily the D players.

 

[stas]

Players who even miss on an offensive base are definitely not fit to discuss the game balance. I've seen this happen sometimes — even in top 5. These players are, to some extent, more like single-player gamers. They stick to their own unique attack style, paying no heed to other players' suggestions.
The ideal game balance should be: Most players (35%) with decent museum and carefully planning can clear most medium defenders and some decent defenders with bad, outdated layouts. Those relatively skilled players (20%) should be able to clear half decent defenders and all medium defenders. Those truly skilled players (10%) should be able to clear most decent defenders and a few top defenders with mediocre layouts. Top attackers (5%) should be able to consistently clear all defenders except for the very best ones. They should struggle on the top defenders too instead of clearing them so easy like they do now. The rest players(30%) don’t have WW museum or don’t know how to attack at all or never plan their attacks. They have nothing to do with the game's WW balance.

All of this… based on what exactly? Just your opinion? Because if the devs actually follow this kind of advice, the game’s going to lose even more players and probably die even faster.

As I already said, they saw what happened last year when defense was overpowered. It wasn’t fun, and the player base dropped. Did we not learn from that?

The majority of players are casuals.
And it's way easier to lose casuals than hardcore players, the hardcore ones are already hooked and will stick around no matter what. Casuals, on the other hand, will just quit and move on to the next game.

 

[stas]

Someone in this thread must be desperate for these players to be able to easily 5star everyone lol. They'll never stop crying and complaining about D is too OP until they reach this point.

Funny, because the only ones I ever see crying nonstop are defenders especially ones like Karen (Seek). So I’m not sure why you're acting like it’s the attackers complaining all the time

 

[Rollin]

I'm generally on board with D players wanting things to change but when you elitists start saying things like unskilled majority or most players don't know how to fight or don't spend on museum you lose all credibility.
The game, for the majority, is about fun. So what if they don't spend time or money on the museum - it's no-ones business but theirs.
Pour your condescending onto the forum if you have to - or better yet, make a farking better argument than running down someone else's way of playing. That's just pathetic.

It's a pay-to-win game ? What do you expect ? I dont get it. This game doesnt exist without money? And BHG doesnt work for free.

There are players who invest little to nothing in the game and start to bring up arguments, its not bad but… we have big players here who invest alot, like me or others. If you want you can, if not then not ? Is it our problem ? no

Your argument is: If the 1% offense destroys the 1% defense in 1-2 minutes, it's okay because the defense is too strong in the mid/lower Rank. But thats not how it works

A top 1000 player is not the same as a top 10 player. But you cant invest NOTHING and then saying the defensiv is „ok“ „maybe too strong“ „nerf plz“

Dominations is mostly balanced for the lategame and maybe a little for other ages

It would be the same if there was a one-win button for $200. Only 1% of players would buy it, and 99% wouldn't, because they don't want to spend money. Is it justified to sell this button then? Because 99% don't use it... its the same Argument

 

[Ezekiel]

Burn!! The old if you dont know, l wont tell you - then double down on the putdowns.
So predictable.
@Seek please tell your followers to be more original and not act so wounded when someone has a different point of view.
So predictable.

Now, anyone want to get the thread back on track?

How did you think I'd be wounded by your absurd words? I'm actually quite amused by how you triggered by the facts I provided.

 

[Ezekiel]

The majority of players are casuals.
And it's way easier to lose casuals than hardcore players, the hardcore ones are already hooked and will stick around no matter what. Casuals, on the other hand, will just quit and move on to the next game.

If all those casual players can walk through most fully-maxed defenders with a bunch of dock TTs and crappy museum. Is this what you call balance?
If this game doesn't make changes soon, it'll end up like this before long. F2P players can claim nearly 700 tokens monthly at no cost. Their artifact stats will inflate progressively as their showcase expands, yet defenders gain absolutely no benefit from showcase. Soon those casual players will be able to do attacks that only top attackers could do before.

 

[Ezekiel]

As I already said, they saw what happened last year when defense was overpowered. It wasn’t fun, and the player base dropped. Did we not learn from that?

I like that period. It would have been perfect if bombers had been nerfed once at that period. Perhaps the player base did slightly shrink during that period, but I believe most of those who left were F2P players or individuals who simply didn't enjoy challenges. NONE of the big whales I know quit the game during that period.
On the contrary, following the tactics rebalance and the 12.20 update — I found two distinct waves of noticeable player attrition. 2 VIP14 and multiple other big whales have gradually quitted over the past 3 months. Needless to say, more whales have stopped spending since then. If not for the friends they play with, they would have quit long ago.

 

[Linnéa]

Funny, because the only ones I ever see crying nonstop are defenders especially ones like Karen (Seek). So I’m not sure why you're acting like it’s the attackers complaining all the time

Actually it’s not only here. The most annoying one I see crying 247 nonstop about D is too OP is a top 50 alliance leader.

 

[stas]

If all those casual players can walk through most fully-maxed defenders with a bunch of dock TTs and crappy museum. Is this what you call balance?
If this game doesn't make changes soon, it'll end up like this before long. F2P players can claim nearly 700 tokens monthly at no cost. Their artifact stats will inflate progressively as their showcase expands, yet defenders gain absolutely no benefit from showcase. Soon those casual players will be able to do attacks that only top attackers could do before.

"No casual player can just 'walk through' most fully-maxed defenders with a bunch of dock TTs and a crappy museum. NO ONE. Let's not pretend it's that easy.

Also, the tokens don’t have the same value they used to

''NONE of the big whales I know quit the game during that period''.
As i said the hardcore are already hooked and will stick around no matter what.

Since update 12.20, I constantly see players running 3–4 squadron drones, or setups with 5 bombers, 3 recons, and 2 Tupolevs. That clearly shows whales are still spending.

Just because you know a few people who stopped playing (probably more due to the fighters nerf than any so-called 'OP offense') doesn’t mean the spending has stopped or that whales are leaving.

 

[stas]

Actually it’s not only here. The most annoying one I see crying 247 nonstop about D is too OP is a top 50 alliance leader.

Show me just ONE player who's crying about ''OP'' defense. Just one.
Because all I see is defenders crying nonstop over and over again

 

[Seek]

You are too delusional , even cold war people having kettle drum and that prosthetic hand now and are taking upto info age 3d bases. i will agree defense generally is enough , for every startegy except mortars and bomber i will agree that defense is good enough.
but mortars with mongols and bomber are too overpowered for defense . there is no balance . everyone using mortars .
its not top 50 problem it is everyone's problem.
But i know how most of attackers are enjoying particularly who rush and just upgrade mortars smash bases that has took years to develop. one can have decent museum easily , u can easily get 100% adtd or aedtd .
Surveys are too easy to manipulate with majority being attackers.

Come on man they have to feel like WAR GODs if you make them actually fight battles on equal terms aka balanced battles they will be upset. Real O players want tough opponents cause then Glory of winning is much sweeter and it not something every clown with a bomber muse or Leggo can do lol it’s like old school Game Shark players couldn’t play the game without it lol