Big round of Applause to those crying 'nerf the French and thier training blessing'
- Thread starter MadFury
- Start date
So i heard correctly? 5min training for other nations with tb? 5min(600 seconds) training time. For french thats a 50sec train time
600 sec ÷ 50 seconds = 6. (6x faster)
6x faster than something is 600% faster.
If i have $3...and double it(2x)....i have $6
$3 x 200% = $6
To convert % to decimal u move the decimal 2 spaces. 200% becomes 2...(2x)
Madfury....keep going im loving it. Ur like the tazmanian devil of stupidity
everyone trying to explain simple math to u and ur just spinning around in a rage of....dumb, lol i crack myself up i havent heard from our natural born newb djinn. So we need some new meat to beat up on. U shall do nicely
Now what shall we call you....im leaning towards....forum buffoon. Anyone got somehing wittier like natural born newb was?
600 sec ÷ 50 seconds = 6. (6x faster)
6x faster than something is 600% faster.
If i have $3...and double it(2x)....i have $6
$3 x 200% = $6
To convert % to decimal u move the decimal 2 spaces. 200% becomes 2...(2x)
Madfury....keep going im loving it. Ur like the tazmanian devil of stupidity
everyone trying to explain simple math to u and ur just spinning around in a rage of....dumb, lol i crack myself up i havent heard from our natural born newb djinn. So we need some new meat to beat up on. U shall do nicely Now what shall we call you....im leaning towards....forum buffoon. Anyone got somehing wittier like natural born newb was?
maggiepie
Approved user
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2015
- Messages
- 447
The French still have exactly the same advantage. We will all have proportionately fewer raids, but French will still have exactly the same proportion more.
Sorry, MadFury, I misunderstood you slightly, I am clear now that you meant complaining over the French nation on this issue was silly, as it has now effectively slowed everyone's game (not re-balanced French). And I agree with that.
It was also obvious it was going to happen a long time ago (sorry, but it was obvious, ironangel I've commented on it to my alliance quite some time ago). Any 'balances' are clearly in favour of slowing everyone's game progression. They want us hooked for years, not 'beating the game' in months.
Sorry, MadFury, I misunderstood you slightly, I am clear now that you meant complaining over the French nation on this issue was silly, as it has now effectively slowed everyone's game (not re-balanced French). And I agree with that.
It was also obvious it was going to happen a long time ago (sorry, but it was obvious, ironangel
I've commented on it to my alliance quite some time ago). Any 'balances' are clearly in favour of slowing everyone's game progression. They want us hooked for years, not 'beating the game' in months.
Ravenlord
Approved user
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2015
- Messages
- 1,406
Agreed but I'm not sure you should bother as some people just wont get it ...
Anyway, let's just all get on with enjoying the nerf ... balance! ..... sorry, game!!
maggiepie
Approved user
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2015
- Messages
- 447
Percent increase or decrease is calculated by the equation:
((New value - Old value) / old value) * 100
Thus, ((6-3)/3)*100 = 100% increase. You have doubled your money, but it's a 100% increase.
Porcupine's calculations are correct. There is an 87% decrease in the time it takes French with TB to cook a raider army compared to the time it takes another nation to cook that same army also on a TB.
Dbuck, you are also not understanding percent change, so maybe take it a bit easier on other people's math skills.
((New value - Old value) / old value) * 100
Thus, ((6-3)/3)*100 = 100% increase. You have doubled your money, but it's a 100% increase.
Porcupine's calculations are correct. There is an 87% decrease in the time it takes French with TB to cook a raider army compared to the time it takes another nation to cook that same army also on a TB.
Dbuck, you are also not understanding percent change, so maybe take it a bit easier on other people's math skills.
maggiepie
Approved user
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2015
- Messages
- 447
The 50sec/600% is not correct. It's:
300sec / 50sec = 6x faster, and
((50sec - 300sec) / (300sec)) * 100 = 83% decrease in training time.
6x faster does not mean a 600% faster training time. That's not the correct mathematical comparison.
But the hypothetical estimation of training times leads to the incorrect percent change. If you use my raider army as an exact example:
32 raiders * 85sec training time = 2720 sec / 3 barracks = 906.67 sec (no TB)
Same composition for French nation on TB = 906.67sec - 97% (or 879.47sec) = 27.2sec
Thus, percent change is:
((27.2sec - 906.67sec) / 906.67sec) * 100 = 97% decrease
Thus, the French on a TB have a 97% decrease in their training time compared to other nations natural build time.
300sec / 50sec = 6x faster, and
((50sec - 300sec) / (300sec)) * 100 = 83% decrease in training time.
6x faster does not mean a 600% faster training time. That's not the correct mathematical comparison.
But the hypothetical estimation of training times leads to the incorrect percent change. If you use my raider army as an exact example:
32 raiders * 85sec training time = 2720 sec / 3 barracks = 906.67 sec (no TB)
Same composition for French nation on TB = 906.67sec - 97% (or 879.47sec) = 27.2sec
Thus, percent change is:
((27.2sec - 906.67sec) / 906.67sec) * 100 = 97% decrease
Thus, the French on a TB have a 97% decrease in their training time compared to other nations natural build time.
maggiepie
Approved user
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2015
- Messages
- 447
The way that the TB percentage and French percentage training time reductions work, a 30% buff (as opposed to 20% buff) is impossible. That's 77 + 30 = 107%. You want them to actually owe you time?
Unless you mean 77% reduction on total training time, then an additional 30% of that value (or vice versa, doesn't matter). Then you are more approximating what the blessing/nation bonus should do, which actually gives a closer percent change value representative of the nation bonus.
The actual issue here is that the French nation bonus is not being applied correctly, if it were then that buff would always equal the correct percent change. As it stands now, there has been no change to French, just global change to everyone.
Unless you mean 77% reduction on total training time, then an additional 30% of that value (or vice versa, doesn't matter). Then you are more approximating what the blessing/nation bonus should do, which actually gives a closer percent change value representative of the nation bonus.
The actual issue here is that the French nation bonus is not being applied correctly, if it were then that buff would always equal the correct percent change. As it stands now, there has been no change to French, just global change to everyone.
Radzeer
Approved user
- Joined
- May 2, 2015
- Messages
- 510
It seems that the play with the percentages (math) and even the termius technicus "percentage" is a problem.
Maybe you can understand it better if we will be looking at this percentage from the other end:
Lets assume that a standard training time of an imaginary unit is 100 secs
When the same unit is built in a French Barrack then it will take 80 secs (100-20): it means the unit will be built in 80% of the original training time
When TB is used:
the non-French unit will be built in 23 secs (100-77): it means the unit will be built in 23% of the original training time
the French unit will be built in 3 secs (100-77-20): it means the unit will be built in 3% of the original training time
So now the comparison of the 3% and the 23% of the original training time gives the mentioned 7.67 multiplier (23/3=7.6666) between the French unit/army build time under TB and a non-French unit/army build time)
This can be interpreted as the the non-French armies are built in 767% of the time of a French army build time - !! under_TB_conditions !!
The question is, of course, what is the proportion of the troops building done under TB condition in comparison with the troops building without the TB condition
Maybe you can understand it better if we will be looking at this percentage from the other end:
Lets assume that a standard training time of an imaginary unit is 100 secs
When the same unit is built in a French Barrack then it will take 80 secs (100-20): it means the unit will be built in 80% of the original training time
When TB is used:
the non-French unit will be built in 23 secs (100-77): it means the unit will be built in 23% of the original training time
the French unit will be built in 3 secs (100-77-20): it means the unit will be built in 3% of the original training time
So now the comparison of the 3% and the 23% of the original training time gives the mentioned 7.67 multiplier (23/3=7.6666) between the French unit/army build time under TB and a non-French unit/army build time)
This can be interpreted as the the non-French armies are built in 767% of the time of a French army build time - !! under_TB_conditions !!
The question is, of course, what is the proportion of the troops building done under TB condition in comparison with the troops building without the TB condition
maggiepie
Approved user
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2015
- Messages
- 447
These calculations are incorrect as well.
100sec unit, 20% French reduction = 80sec, or 20% reduction in original training time, ie, ((80-100)/100)*100=20% decrease
TB non-French = 23sec, or 77% reduction in original time
TB French = 3sec, or 97% reduction in original time
The straight time comparison is 7.67x, but the percentage comparison is 1.26x: 3sec*7.67=23sec and 77%*1.26=97%
You can't simply convert 'times faster' to a percentage by multiplying it by 100.
Therefore, French armies are built 7.7 times faster, or 87% faster, than non-French armies, all using a TB, in this scenario.
100sec unit, 20% French reduction = 80sec, or 20% reduction in original training time, ie, ((80-100)/100)*100=20% decrease
TB non-French = 23sec, or 77% reduction in original time
TB French = 3sec, or 97% reduction in original time
The straight time comparison is 7.67x, but the percentage comparison is 1.26x: 3sec*7.67=23sec and 77%*1.26=97%
You can't simply convert 'times faster' to a percentage by multiplying it by 100.
Therefore, French armies are built 7.7 times faster, or 87% faster, than non-French armies, all using a TB, in this scenario.
Last edited:
Aurelius...
Approved user
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2015
- Messages
- 423
Though each of those is substantially preferable to vegemite...
maggiepie
Approved user
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2015
- Messages
- 447
And because of this misunderstanding, I'm inclined to take any of dbuk's percentage calculations with a grain of salt. Or at least double-check the math on it.
Aurelius...
Approved user
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2015
- Messages
- 423
In response to MadFury's comment, I'd suggest we all be careful about calling for nerfs. Let's focus on what's underpowered, rather than what's overpowered and maybe we can inspire the devs to BUFF, rather than nerf. Just a thought...
Porcupine
Approved user
- Joined
- May 19, 2015
- Messages
- 461
Radzeer you were doing fine but i'm afraid you messed up there in the end as well.
While studying percentages you now assume if 23 is the new 100% then 3 constitute the 13% of 23 ( 3 x 100 / 23 = 13 )
3 needs 87% (100-13 = 83) more to become 23.
Thus my original calculation.
While studying percentages you now assume if 23 is the new 100% then 3 constitute the 13% of 23 ( 3 x 100 / 23 = 13 )
3 needs 87% (100-13 = 83) more to become 23.
Thus my original calculation.
Radzeer
Approved user
- Joined
- May 2, 2015
- Messages
- 510
The calculations are correct: lets take then the real example:
Raiders are created in 85 secs
I have switched to France a few days ago (from Greeks) and since then the raiders are created in 68 secs (which is 80%)
When I have TB on then the raiders are created in 3 secs (which shall be 2.55 secs as 85 x 0.03=2.55)
When Having the Greek nation the raiders were created in 20 secs (23% of 85 secs) when TB was on.
So the final point is that French army is created 7.67 times quicker under TB conditions as a non-French army.
I do not care about the 77% vs. 97% comparison as this is the comparison of the benefit and not the building time. The 1.26x has nothing to say about the building time.
The building time comparison is:
The non-French army under TB condition is built up in 767% of a build time of a French army under the same TB condition
I have never stated in the original post, that something is by xy% faster. It was all about the building time comparison - reread my post!
Raiders are created in 85 secs
I have switched to France a few days ago (from Greeks) and since then the raiders are created in 68 secs (which is 80%)
When I have TB on then the raiders are created in 3 secs (which shall be 2.55 secs as 85 x 0.03=2.55)
When Having the Greek nation the raiders were created in 20 secs (23% of 85 secs) when TB was on.
So the final point is that French army is created 7.67 times quicker under TB conditions as a non-French army.
I do not care about the 77% vs. 97% comparison as this is the comparison of the benefit and not the building time. The 1.26x has nothing to say about the building time.
The building time comparison is:
The non-French army under TB condition is built up in 767% of a build time of a French army under the same TB condition
I have never stated in the original post, that something is by xy% faster. It was all about the building time comparison - reread my post!
Last edited:
Im not talking about percent or increase like u are. Ur talking about percentages starting from the point of normal training time and how much u modified it. Im talking about percent increase of normal nation training time while having tb (5 min) to french training time with tb (50 seconds)
50 seconds x 600% = 5 min(500 sec)
Once tb is active french train 600% faster
Without tb french train 20% faster
heres a made up example. Lets say tb + french bonus = 99% reduction in training time. That would make a full french army train in 10 seconds
A french army trained in 10 seconds can train 30 armies in the same time everyone else trains 1 army. Thats a factor of 30x. The normal nation train tb time is 3000% slower compared to french tb train time
Anyways if were still not on the same page we can just stick to the 30x made up. Or the 6x real world french advantage
There are programmers lurking somewhere popping champagne, having the time of their lives in this topic.
They nerfed everyone's training blessing, not just the French. Old world dies, new world is born. Story of humanity. End of discussion.
They nerfed everyone's training blessing, not just the French. Old world dies, new world is born. Story of humanity. End of discussion.
Similar threads
- Suggestion
