Apple now requiring all apps to disclose odds for loot boxes

[Quovatis]

I saw today that Apple is now requiring all apps in the app store to disclose the odds of getting individual items in the loot boxes. Previously that was only limited to China (which is why Marco wasn't available there for a while). But now it applies to the US as well. This is something players have asked for for a long time, and I'm glad that it appears that Nexon is going to be required to disclose those odds.

Please make this change immediately. Players deserve to know the odds.

 

[KniferX]

Excellent news. Didn't believe Apple would be the one doing this first. It seems they saw the impending lootbox storm early on and decided to secure themselves against it.
Still wondering if Nexon will play dumb and not reveal the odds for Androids too.

 

[Quovatis]

It's unclear when the requirement will be imposed, but it's good new nonetheless. Hopefully Google follows suit.

After China required disclosure, some game companies were offering odds as low as 0.1%. I think most of Dominations top prizes are in the 5% range, but will still be interesting to know just how much they are screwing players. Maybe it will force them to give better odds when players buy less chests as they see the odds are so unfavorable.

I'm glad Apple is standing up for consumers, because game companies were never going to do it themselves.

 

[Manifesto]

This is political correctness gone crazy. People are becoming more and more like spoilt children with each new generation.
We have signs on cups of hot beverages saying that it's hot.
Packages have to dumb down the cost per kilo so people can work out which is cheaper.
We have signs in clubs and casinos warning gambling is addictive.
Each generation is becoming more dependant on 'allowances'!
I'm glad I was born in a generation where we took responsibility for our actions and we learned simple things like adding without calculators, existing without constant input (24/7 phone addiction) and being able to park a car all by myself!

 

[KniferX]

What the hell does this rant have to do with the topic of revealing odds in these gamble-boxes?
Day by day you sound more and more like an apologist for greedy corporate practices.

 

[Manifesto]

KniferX , my rant serves 2 purposes.
But in a nutshell, people want everything dumbed down for them, it's pathetic!

 

[Quovatis]

How is it dumbing it down, when the odds are unknowable? The only way to determine the odds is by purchasing a large number of them, which kinda defeats the point. The odds for lottery tickets and casino games are posted or easily calculated. That is impossible for loot boxes.

 

[Manifesto]

Quovatis, if the odds are impossible for loot boxes then why do people think Nexon will have to start advertising the odds? Isn't that the whole point of this post, so people will be told the odds?
Then they can't blame Nexon when they get cider instead of a tank army.
It's a perfect example of people wanting things dumbed down for them, because they want to know the odds instead of taking a gamble, which is exactly what a lottery is.
Knowing the odds of getting a 1 vs 6 isn't going to help me when I roll a dice, I roll it anyway and take my chances.

 

[JMoney]

It is for the convenience of the consumer, which is never a bad thing. The same way it is by law required in Canada that calories be displayed in food menus at restaurants. It both helps you keep track of your daily calorie intake and be more thoughtful about what food you're choosing to eat.

 

[Mcnasty]

Who the fuck cares what the odds are? Oh ya the pay to win players do. The only thing good about Marco Polo is the troop chest and that cost rubies won in war. Everything else sucks. All I read is people crying about this and that. “ I can’t win now cause people pay to win”. If you gotta pay to win then you suck at the game. The odds are all you crying babies suck

 

[Manifesto]

JMoney, I get it, but at the same time people are able to think for themselves, are they not? They've been doing it for millenia.
Expecting others to make things easier for us diminishes us in small ways a little at a time. To use your example, people have always had the ability to make sensible decisions. Now all of a sudden we can't, unless we have calorie information at our disposal? When exactly did that happen?
Anyway, this conversation is interesting. I was curious to get people's views!
Remember though, my views are just my views!

 

[Manifesto]

I'm not sure if I like you or not!

 

[yemen]

Right now, it is like rolling a dice. You know there is one winning roll, but you don't know how many sides the dice has. So you can't tell if you are betting on 1 in 6, or 1 in 1000. This just requires them to tell you the odds. Gambling without knowing the odds isn't betting; it is just wishing.

 

[KniferX]

You aren't exactly thinking this through.

If you haven't noticed a major shift in today's gaming is that it's all about putting gambling systems (lootboxes) everywhere. First it was free games, now it is all games.

Why do they do that? Because there are people prone to spending extraordinary ammounts of money, even more than regular microtransactions, in what is in practice gambling, but it's not gambling by strict definition.

Why do we complain about it (and celebrate this slight pushback)? Because it makes the game experience WORSE for everyone else. You have to make a system that entices whales to spend by giving them advantages.
I didn't even mention how morally corrupt it is to trick gamers into becoming gamblers in bliss.

To make a final point, imagine now if you went to a TV store and instead of buying what you want, you had to buy a special TV box that contains a random TV, and you can't refund if you don't like it.
If that sounds ok to you I don't know what else to say.

 

[KniferX]

Manifesto, you're just justifying shady gambling practices here using mental gymnastics to connect it to unrelated topics.
Gambling is an addiction.
Smoking is also an addiction (by the way it's an addiction that was really at its' worst during your golden generation times that you can't seem to stop talking about)

If you're completely fine with what is happening today, I guess you would also be fine with your computer constantly waving a pack of cigarettes in front of your face. I mean it's your choice if you want to smoke or not, right? You don't want to dumb yourself down by removing that very useful feature from your computer.

 

[Quovatis]

I don't have a problem with gambling. But the player deserves to know what the odds are. Odds are printed on lottery tickets and plenty of people still buy them. As is, the odds in loot boxes are hidden. The odds might be 1 in a million, but you would never know, and have no way of knowing. This is not dumbing anything down, as even the smartest person cannot predict the odds without buying a large number of boxes first. Let players know the odds, and then they can either purchase on a whim, or do calculations to see if the risk is worth it to them or not.

 

[MSS-Gaming]

If you are somehow against this just consider this scenario:
A chest containing a building as an option is sold for 400 crowns. The odds are unknown so everyone who looks at the chest and sees the building they want consider buying the chest expecting the possibility of that building being in the chest. Now consider that Nexon is forced to reveal the odds, and the odds to win that building are 1/15000. Do you think anyone would still pay 400 crowns to buy that chest? This would force nexon to make the odds better for the consumer in order to sell more chests. An informed consumer is a happy consumer.

 

[Quovatis]

Historical data has shown the typical odds of getting a building are around 5% (the average player is not aware of this), but nothing is preventing Nexon from changing the odds to 0.001% for the next chest, and players would spend crowns/money on the chest with a false impression of the odds. By revealing the odds, it prevents any shenanigans by Nexon and protects the customer.

 

[Quovatis]

Would be nice to get a comment by Nexon/BHG on when Dominations will be compliant with the new Apple requirement. TinSoldier

 

[melheor]

It would not surprise me if the odds don't justify the deal. After all, the game is all about extreme diminishing returns and even many in-game researches take 1+ years to pay for themselves. For example, maxing out resource-producing buildings. Or better yet, level 5 "Command" research that costs 117,000 oil and results in 10% General training discount. It costs about 600 oil to train 2nd general and 2x that for third, it also doesn't make sense to use multiple Generals in MP because of the 22-hour heal time, so this research only benefits you in war. Assuming you always train 3 Generals, do 2 attacks per war, participate in every war and run wars non-stop, you'll save (600+1200)*2*0.1 oil every 2 days, that's 360 oil. This research will break even after 325 wars, or 650 days if you war non-stop. After 650 days, if the game is still around, you'll be laughing at those idiots who're still wasting their oil on Generals.

This kind of math is all over the game, my guess is the math only gets worse in these chests.