Having trouble to raider looting

[Cobra]

Hello everyone,
when I want to lose medals I use a raider looting army (30 raiders 1 pikeman), usually one protect blessing would get me 90 - 100% of the loot, plus a reduction in medals

After the last update I find my raider looting army is not as effective. I find that I am only getting 40 - 50% if the loot.

My observations are:

1) raiders seem easier to kill
2) Redoubts kill raiders very quickly even with a protect blessing
3) Raider AI seems to make decisions that minimize loot stolen:

i) Some of the raiders seem to want to engage with the defending troops instead of attacking the markets and mills

ii) If the raiders have punched a hole through a wall and there are markets and mills inside the walls they seem to
only attack a few of the markets and mills then exit the compartment, attack farms and caravan gold outside the compartment,
then try and re-enter the compartment to attack the remaining markets and mills

iii) I have seen raiders enter a compartment attack some of the markets and mills, then try and make another hole in the wall to attack farms outside the compartment even though
there are still markets and mills inside the compartment

iv) One Spike trap seems to kill multiple raiders (I have seen one spike trap kill as many as 5 - 7 raiders)

IMO by making the defences more efficient and making the raider AI less efficient the development team have already "fixed" the raider attack.

I know some of you still are making efficient raider attacks, please give me some tips so I can increase the efficiency of my raider attacks.

thank you for your help

 

[maggiepie]

This would have been good to post in the feedback thread for this week. I have also seen many of the same issues as you have with raiders (I have issues with every unit's AI). I have never spammed raiders though, so I can't offer insight on how to make it more effective (sorry! Did want to say you're not alone with these problems, though). I can say when I'm dropping medals I use max 6 raiders only, if loot good enough. I usually deploy on a badly defended base, and it's preferable when farms/caravans holding the loot. I can average 70k each per drop raid, which I find decent enough.

 

[dbukalski]

The raider AI is basically perfect. I can predict their behavior very satisfactorally. 1) if they get attacked theyll fight back. 2 and 3) are the same thing. After destroying the mill/market the next closest target to the raiders is the farm outside the wall

 

[maggiepie]

Except when they don't attack milk/market in range but choose another, further, target. I'm glad someone has excellent, reliable, raider, but unfortunately it's not everyone's experience.

 

[Eddie F1]

The difference between the OP and what dbukalski & I am doing is we are not using raiders to drop medals, we are using them to win and that is much harder.

Medal droppers probably only use them 10 or 20 times and conclude they are not very good, fight 1000 battles with them, learn how they work and it's fun and rewarding.

 

[maggiepie]

I use them in every raid. But I still don't spam with them. I know what they are capable of and I see when they behave inappropriately, just like every other unit.

 

[dbukalski]

Its possible ur raider AI is broken and mines not but i doubt it. Im quite sure that ur wrong when u claim that a gold storage was within range but they attack something else. That something else(farm) was almost assuredly closer than the gold. Closer in absolute terms from the farm to the raider models. The gold storage may have been close to the first resource they were attacking but not closer to the raiders who were standing on opposite side. Without pictures its hard to explain. But u need to get used to looking at shortest distance from raider to next storage. Ignoring walls. And not get distracted by how close the next storage is to the current storage their attacking when the raiders are standing on far side of where u really want them to go. Ull either learn to recognize their real next target. Or ull be frustrated with percieved AI bug. Raiders can be used to take down the toughest bases in the game. 2xlvl30 generals, max everything, blessings, good design. Walk away with tc, forbidden palace destroyed, most of gold and trade storage taken.

 

[dbukalski]

"I use them in every raid. But I still don't spam with them. I know what they are capable of and I see when they behave inappropriately, just like every other unit"........i also use them in every raid. I spam them, and havent used anything other than raidera + little support for long while. Their AI is perfect

 

[Redgar]

I don't like their path finding on buildings perimiteres and getting too close to the target. Shouldn't they have some range? So, they were nerfed already?

 

[dbukalski]

When the raiders decide to attack a farm on other side of the wall they can travel quite far to go arouns the farm. But when they selected their next target the farm was closest. Its not the tactical decision a player would make. But for an AI its understandable. And most imoortantly easily predictable.

 

[Eddie F1]

Your definition of spamming and mine seem different.
Even if used all 120 troop spaces for raiders and built basically a Mongol Hoard, it'll still take some skill to take all loot and a TC.

Spamming is using no talent what so ever, like the HC in the old days, drop them anywhere, go make a cup of tea, come back, see 5* victory and rebuild the one that died.

 

[Redgar]

It's hard for me to predict if they got in range of def towers or not and which side they'll attack res building unless it is farms from the front. I see they have range and should use it. When they attack caravans bags they almost step on them! also the fact they're distracted my defenders is annoying.

 

[maggiepie]

Maybe we're getting caught up in semantics- I simply consider a large group of a single unit meant to complete an objective (eg, wipe base, loot all rss) as a spam raid. I see you mean that you consider spamming to be more of a set it and forget it strategy, but perhaps this is where we agree to disagree? I do, however, agree it takes some skill to manipulate a large group of a single unit type to take down a base- but, it's not the intention of the game, it appears, to use only a single unit type to do this. And it's much more work to coordinate the attack of multiple unit types, each with their own specialization. It becomes more difficult when the limited unit types don't behave as expected. My raiders are included in my diverse army with the intention of taking a whole base down- so I suppose I'm simply trying to say I'm familiar with the unit, and I have seen them be silly.

 

[maggiepie]

No, you were actually quite clear in your meaning; I see what you are saying. But, the proof is in the pudding, and it appears neither of us have any the issue I specifically referenced- attacking house outside wall when mill/market closer- I can only assure you the remaining mill/market was closer in proximity to the position of the raider. The house was further away, and the raider went for that instead. I remember it well as it was so bizarre. Unfortunately I don't have the replay anymore to take a screenshot. So, understanding clearly that all units attack their closest target, I still stand by my statement that I've seen it be weird. Maybe we agree to disagree as well? would love to see some of your raids though!

 

[maggiepie]

"Their AI is perfect"

Ha! Careful, nothing in life is perfect.. you're starting to sound like you're filling in for our resident cheerleader who's been conspicuously absent lately

 

[Eddie F1]

We'll ignore the word spam then

when this game is finally balanced, a force of single unit should work, but not be over-powered. It gives variety and fun to playing. At time you need to switch strategies. I had just made it to EA when the last HC "balance" happened, so was stuck with a GP army size & strength at the very time I needed tons of resources.

Prior to that I use your well-balanced army, foot, archer, HC, bombards & healers. The type of base we look for, we have to try and 5* because we don't want to lose the bombards & healers - or we're looking at an hour to rebuild (assume not French or Training Blessing available here).

Switching to raiders gets me the necessary resources to build an EA army.

But the bases I seek out are different (luckily there is no one design of base that trumps all others). Back in the full-army days, I'd come across abandoned EA bases, TC, defences & storage all tightly packed behind L10 walls, but mills & markets empty - the 300k of each loot was in the roads & farms, but with a full-army it's taking a chance attacking just for the loot because you need to take the defences too or lose your cannons/bombards/healers. (Assuming we are in the medals here too, so don't want a loss). This is exactly the type of base I'm looking for with raiders.

So horses for courses.

Sooner or later, I'll get bored with raiders and try something else - maybe a squad of 30 wall miners would be good for a laugh

 

[Cobra]

I am moving my original post to the sticky Nexon posted to discuss raiders

 

[dbukalski]

The sticky is gone

 

[Cobra]

thanks I just noticed the sticky appears to have become "unstuck"

 

[maggiepie]

To be perfectly honest I agree with you- raiders absolutely are, hands down, the most efficient at looting, especially when you need a lot of loot fast. And I also agree full army composition is cumbersome because you really must take out all defenses to try to bring them home or you do risk a lot of downtime. I also think people should be able to raid with whatever army composition they want to- large raider composition is a viable strategy at this point. But I disagree that once the game is balanced, a single unit type can be efficient on it's own- simply for the reason that I think they are working towards forcing people to use a varied army. Also, if you ever send a hoard of miners into battle, you must find a way to share the result! That would be something! (Thanks for the good chat, btw )