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Honest Wonder Ratings

Maurmo

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Well with the right library bits I get interest on oil in the vault and it is increased with Eifel
 

vincentdang4

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Respectfully disagree with many of these assessments. If Atomium gets 3/5 because "top players have probably completed those University researches," then Stonehenge, Pyramids, Notre Dame, etc gets 0/5 since many of these players also have max walls and likely fully upgraded bases. Naturally, with the addition of additional ages and buildings/walls to upgrade, there will be additional University researches to upgrade as well. Also I war against these top alliances, while their maxed bases do not have the Atomium, many of those lv 210s-230s in the same alliances do have this wonder. I can assure you none of them have some of those 5/5 wonders you mentioned. It's more popular than you think. Honestly, you can't randomly apply one criteria to one wonder and negate that same criteria for other wonders as well.

As hinted, wonders are highly dependent on the Age of the player. For example, everything outside of Acropolis is nearly useless for a late Atomic player, the defensive nature of Colosseum becomes more and more minuscule starting Enlightenment Age, etc.
 
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Wynne D Fanchon

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FroggyKilla Ok then why is Notre Dame 5 stars if most Atomic players have probably finished library research and end up switching to Colosseum? Sounds like you're contradicting yourself. Time is the most valuable commodity which is something you underestimate.
 

FroggyKilla

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Respectfully disagree with many of these assessments. If Atomium gets 3/5 because "top players have probably completed those University researches," then Stonehenge, Pyramids, Notre Dame, etc gets 0/5 since many of these players also have max walls and likely fully upgraded bases. Naturally, with the addition of additional ages and buildings/walls to upgrade, there will be additional University researches to upgrade as well. Also I war against these top alliances, while their maxed bases do not have the Atomium, many of those lv 210s-230s in the same alliances do have this wonder. I can assure you none of them have some of those 5/5 wonders you mentioned. It's more popular than you think. Honestly, you can't randomly apply one criteria to one wonder and negate that same criteria for other wonders as well.

As hinted, wonders are highly dependent on the Age of the player. For example, everything outside of Acropolis is nearly useless for a late Atomic player, the defensive nature of Colosseum becomes more and more minuscule starting Enlightenment Age, etc.
That's not why Atomium got 3.5/5. It got that rating because it's main ability can only be used weekly, and most Wonder abilities reset daily, so you can use your Wonder abilities an extra time per week. Nothing too special, as it's a gimmick. If it got buffed to 3 days, and it decreased University costs by 10%, then maybe it would get the 5 stars. I mean you're already getting 30% off the cost and time just by completing Musa and Hiawatha, which is just enough in my opinion. I guess I forgot to mention that all the economic wonders become nearly useless upon completing whatever. But do realize that it's in the economic wonder's nature. They're supposed to help you along the way. If it managed to help you along the way, then it did its job. It got the 5/5 stars, and these wonders are quite likely to do so (except, you know, Temple of Tikal and Pyramids, as their ratings are lower). They're not going to help you on defense or offense (except maybe Sydney Opera House or even... Atomium).
 

JMoney

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You don't get Atomium for its active ability. Same reason I didn't get the Statue of Liberty or the Notre Dame for that extra oil and gold every day. The Atomium could not even have an active ability and it would still be an incredibly powerful wonder. Its power is -- everything the university has to offer -- faster.
 
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Wynne D Fanchon

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FroggyKilla I did and you didn't mention how Notre would become meaningless after you finish all the important library research, still doesn't answer my previous question which was dodged.
 

Wynne D Fanchon

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Exactly, a concept OP is having a difficult time understanding.

He rates Notre Dame as perfect but neglects to take into consideration how useful it is after you finish library, Atomium is essentially the same thing but for University which is a long term Wonder to one of the most powerful buildings in the game which baffles me why he continues to talk about its active ability when it's really about the time you're saving.
 
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FroggyKilla

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JMoney It's certainly a powerful one. The ones you mention do very little and are bad comparisons—really should compare with the Wonder Tactics. Without the active ability... lemme ask you this, are the research times so incredibly long that the time decrease would be something to consider? Didn't think so. Especially considering that this Wonder comes so late into the game (yea new stuff, but once you're done with the new stuff, you're back to Square one), especially compared to the uses that Expeditions have if you were to get Sydney Opera House, and especially considering you're getting 30% off time and costs for everyone except Amelia.

Wynne D Fanchon Notre Dame can zone and funnel... just like every Wonder. It's nothing spectacular for defense, and you'd likely switch to Forbidden City because star denial is its job. It's not very helpful once you completed Library and Armory, but I can still say it's perfect because its job is done. I got 10% off all those costs. Let's put this into mental math. I need to wait 7d to complete my research, so with Atomium... I'd save 10% time with Atomium, so pretty much I'd get my research a day earlier. One day earlier for a 1w research. It's not as godly as you think it is.
 

Wynne D Fanchon

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FroggyKilla Great, now see how many months/years it takes for each leader and realize the bigger picture. Faster completion means faster progression.

Notre is 10% in resources and as you said ''You will be saving so much in resources when you get this Wonder. It's that good.''

Replace the word resource with time. You make a big deal of the 10% on the resource you save from library and armory but it's not the same praise when it comes to the University. If you spend 5mil in gold on a library upgrade you're only saving 10% which is 500k, that can be obtained in a single 3 minute raid...''It's not as godly as you think it is.''

You were rating each one in its Niche pick and you somehow forced Atomium into being a World War wonder in addition to stating that it's being picked for its weekly active ability when it's probably the opposite...
 
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obsidi

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thanks froggy.
i have so much to say that it feels impractical to begin; here is briefest possible constructive criticism.
to you i say ... be more severely critical, you are too positive to some weak choices.

it might be better over in the 'tactics and strategies' forum where it won't get bumped off the top as fast.

1-5 rating *to others in the same age*; across ages it can't have much practical meaning.

stonehenge: 2; pretty; forces design with roads and upgrading caravans.
pyramids: 2; forces upgrading farms; stonehenge/pyramids are for more casual non-raiding players.
acropolis: 5; ubiquitous choice
hanging gardens: 3; pretty, 20%+ faster training blessings (considering you raid for cider as well)

notre dame: 3; pretty. less useful the more obsessive you are raiding. it's unique defensive application might be important to some.
colosseum: 4; ugly but useful. the SoG blessing 'pollutes' your troop display until you use it which i find really irritating.
teracotta: 2; this could be buffed; i like the idea. i think it's pretty too.
forbidden city: 5; almost required for ww.

ankgor wat: 4; ugly. too easy to compensate for to compete with versailles.
taj mahal: 2; mini-british bonus
versailles: 5; boxy but good. imo the global 10% to life clearly outshines angkor.
temple of tikal: 1; mini-korean bonus.

kremlin: 4; it's made a difference in my fights.
statue of liberty: 5; air-lovers choice.
eiffel tower: 0; vault/peace vs strongly influencing the practical game; very weak. imo this is the 'mistake' choice. we disagree here froggy.
brandenburg: 5; bazooka/destroyer/HT lovers choice.

atomium: 5; great when most workers at university; before that consider opera house.
united nations: 2; saves a little extra raiding; underwhelming. the peacekeeping force is good but if you want defense pentagon is better.
sydney opera house: 5; extra citizen is great; expeditions useless considering dramatic opportunity cost.
pentagon: 3; i'm careful not to lose planes -- though the extra general is great

nb (coffee) you're right about atomium; imo it really depends on strategy and planning/thinking whether it's 4 or 5.
nb (manifesto) seems if you want defense pentagon is better but point taken.
nb (manifesto) i especially disfavor stonehenge because it asks you to think about road network and upgrade caravans; i prefer to shape my roads into pretty symbols. i'll +1
nb (vincent) good heuristic
 
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vincentdang4

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Any reduction in university time is valuable, even 10%. One of the best defensive trees to research and maxed is Sultan Saladin. Virtually everyone in my alliance have villagers committed to this tree full-time (but we are all late atomics, so any buffs in defense help). The Atomium saves the player 78d for a complete Sultan Saladin. This is just one tree. I often have 3-4 trees researching at the same time. Whether one crowns the university researches or commit villagers to them, it can make a lot of sense to build/switch the Atomium. It's a time reduction wonder's nature to reduce research time. They are supposed to help you along the way. If your research gets done faster, then it did its job. See what I did there?

Wonders serve different players differently. Ratings differ depend on Age of the Player and where their upgrades/researches are. I could care less about the Atomium weekly ability. Likewise, I could care less about the 5/5 United Nations because I almost always have 28 of all Nation Trade Goods despite warring 3x a week and always activating x3 level 5-6 coalitions. The only useful aspect of United Nations for me is the defense aspect, which will get massacred by x1 mk6 strike fighter. To me this is a 3-4/5 wonder at best. For Pentagon, I don't have a 4th strong general (only level 21), so the defense aspect is minimal. I lose 1-2 strike fighter a day in raids (unless I decided to stop playing and go on a suicide run), so any savings in airplane training time doesn't really change my play style. This wonder would be a 4/5 and maybe a 5/5 when I get my 4th general to level 31. I'm sure you know by now that shipyard expeditions are almost useless, hence the only valuable component of Pentagon is the extra villager. I actually have the Pentagon, but given my heavy investment in the University, this proved to be a mistake. I should have switched a long time ago if I actually had the crowns lying around. As you can see, there are no objective ways to rate wonders (except a few really awful ones).

I don't understand why you value 10% reduction in resources like gold and food. The most valuable aspect of this game is villager time, resource can be had so quickly unless you play less than 30min a day. The only good 10% reduction in resources would be oil, and that's only because of Amelia.

You actually missed one very valuable features of Notre Dame, the 10% reduction in research applies before the research. Hence, you do not need to fully maxed all mills prior to upgrading troops in the Blacksmith/Armory. This is very valuable once you enter a new Age, as you can get a head start over someone who does not have Notre Dame.
 

British Coffee

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Like I said. Resource buildings are pretty much useless even when upgraded and they are not upgraded regularly because they are useless. So resources given from stonehenge or pyramid bonus is minimal even with the upgrades while acropolis benefits you in ages where defense actually mean something.
 

British Coffee

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I agree with most of the ratings. Except for pentagon since extra general means a lot in WWs so it deserves 5 and atomium combined with Sejong and Da vinchi caps, is better than extra citizen.
 

Manifesto

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All good points obsidi.
My 1 or 2 disagreements would be:
Stonehenge: extra gold bonus is nothing to be sneezed at. I think of it as a 4.
Notre Dame: when you hit AA and troops cost 10,000plus, this wonder keeps your costs low AND you don't need to upgrade your mills or markets to their fullest. I give it a 4.
United Nations: Some people like defense. 1 is a bit subjective.
 

LordJestix

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When i get to atomic age, I will be using the Opera House first. Then when i dont need that extra citizen ill be switching to Atomium to finish up the university researches then ill be switching to Pentagon.

I doubt ill be at Atomic age by the time the release the next age if im still playing by then, i will be unless nexon/bhg continues down the path its on, so ill probably have opera house for quite some time when i get there.
 

FroggyKilla

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Buddy, Notre Dame comes much more earlier; in fact, it comes the same age as the Library. There are much more things you can discount with Notre Dame than the things you can discount with Atomium. Also, your claim of raiding 500k gold every time is preposterous. That's like once in a blue moon. Though you could do that in two raids though, easily. Like someone else hinted, I value resources over time (though its nice to have a time reduction). Really at most, my researches from the University with Atomium is going to shave off a month or two.

Plus, why would Atomium include a weekly Wonder ability reset? I wasn't forcing anything. I'm making the best of it, and so should you. The developers obviously must've thought there would be little appeal if it just have the time reduction, hence the weekly Wonder ability reset. It's something you can take advantage of, I guess, while you finish University researches.
 

FroggyKilla

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Lemme get this straight, you waited to complete constructing Atomium to start work on Saladin? I would imagine you'd start some parts of it; then again, I don't know where you were when the University came into being, but I'm quite sure it came before Atomic Age. You would've had to at least start it,and you would've completed Mansa Musa before starting Saladin. 78d could be saved from Mansa+Atomium, but I dont think that all came from just Atomium. Also, yes, I did see what you did there. Duly noted.

You are correct to say Wonders serve different players differently. And you are correct to say that there's no objective way to rate Wonders. If I was rating them objectively, I'd be assessing how well it stands compared to the other Wonder types, which would, as everyone's been telling me, would phase out most of the economic Wonders. I find that to be quite unfair to say that they would be useless. But there's a good way to rate the Wonder based on the three categories that exist. Let's take Temple of Tikal. You can easily see how it flops as an economic wonder. Also, time reduction would fit into the economy category. Its affecting costs or production of resources.

I value resources over time because sometimes, it can be an arduous process. I can do other things to kill the time.

Good point on Notre Dame, I didn't see that until you pointed that out.
 

FroggyKilla

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Thank you for correcting me! I will fix this later, because I'm going to sleep.
 
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