Honest Wonder Ratings

[JMoney]

>Also, your claim of raiding 500k gold every time is preposterous. That's like once in a blue moon.

Why would I lie about that? It's very common for a british nation to get 450k~500k+ gold/food from raiding. Especially from Global Age preying on inactive Industrial Age bases. Let's say I attacked a base that has about 400k gold to steal, I'll get an additional 15% off of them from the nation bonus alone that converts into about 60k additional gold. That's not even accounting a loot blessing bonus (21% more with the uni buff ontop of it) and the gold building destruction and league bonuses. 400k gold base easily becomes a 500k gold raid or even more.

 

[FroggyKilla]

Well I'm not playing as the British. I knew they can do that consistently, but do the other nations? 400k is like full stores and mines. Even then it saved you a raid if you were to pick Notre Dame.

 

[FroggyKilla]

Keep in mind you won't be getting any helpful offensive or defensive bonuses with this Wonder, so when you're done researching stuff from the Armory and the Library, switch to another Wonder. This is my mention. It gets the five stars because it does its job well. The stars aren't a measure of relevancy, they're a measure of power.

 

[vincentdang4]

Pretty sure I said I have the Opera House and regret it, but hypothetically, the Atomium can shave off 78d by itself from Saladin without Mansa Musa and Hiawatha. You can do the math yourself and confirm the result. Without the capstone and Masa Musa/Hiawatha, it takes 780d to completely research Saladin. From a villager hour standpoint, once you reach 10 villagers committed to the University consistently, it is better to choose Atomium over Opera House.

 

[vincentdang4]

Good choice.

 

[vincentdang4]

JMoney is on the money about this. It is very easy to loot resources if you are willing to play low medals. At least for Atomic Age, you can find a bunch of abandoned global bases with heavily upgraded farms and caravans worth 400-500k gold and 200-300k food sitting in low medals. If you have the right army composition, you lose maybe 2-3 shooters per attack. I usually play while watching a tv show/movie. Don't even need to look at the tablet. No need for training blessings either. Ever wonder how people got those pretty golden walls legit? After I discovered this, I realize how silly Notre Dame is and switched.

 

[Wynne D Fanchon]

FroggyKilla I get a decent amount of people with 400-450k a day. Factor in bonuses and it's 500k, so it's not proposterous. Lower age players don't find 400-500k often because you're raiding gunpowder age and low enlightenment age players. Even if it was, so what, raid 2 people like you said with 250k each, 5-6 mins of raiding instead of 3 mins, big deal. Even if you don't get Atomium until later, some players have had it since it came out because they were already ahead, and future leaders are going to be coming out anyway.

In the comments above vincentdang4 mentioned you're saving 78days on Saladin. That's only Saladin without mentioning the other leaders and future leaders. Some leaders are only available later anyway, like Emilia Earhart which is not too far off the time you'd get Atomium. Not sure which university you have to where you're only researching for 30-60 weeks but I want that one. Just because it's saving you 30-60days doesn't mean that's going to be the case for everyone. Last I checked, this is supposed to be an honest wonder review, and so far this seems to be talking more about your scenario rather than in general which is contradictory to your post.

Think you may have underestimated and not done your homework that University is going to be a building all players, top players especially, are going to be investing in forever because it gets buildings to go way beyond their potential.

 

[FroggyKilla]

I'm not doing the math. You do it, you're the one arguing with me on why Atomium deserves the full 5 stars. That's like telling someone to google something during a debate.

 

[danron1376]

vincentdang4, how low a medal count do you have to go to find those abandoned bases?

 

[FroggyKilla]

Gunpowder Age players can get the University to level 2. That means you can start work on everyone except Amelia. Amelia is pretty much the only one that's truly unlocked later (level 4 in fact, which I assume is in the Industrial Age). And you can start researching all of them simultaneously. Why are you researching them one at a time? And you think this is all my scenario? If new players were to ever show up, they would face the same situation I'm in. I didn't account for your situation, and I'm sorry for it. But that scenario is slowly going to fade away into irrelevance. The University is becoming an aging feature so to say. It's funny how you say a general situation, yet you're acting the same way I am ignoring the other scenario. Sounds a bit... hypocritical.

78d may sound big, but you're saving 234 days just by completing Musa. Do I need the additional 78d savings? Debatable because there's some rush to complete everything, so I'm going to pick a different Wonder. While the math was deceptively simple, he just told me to do the math. That sounds a bit questionable.

 

[Wynne D Fanchon]

FroggyKilla You don't unlock the entire tree of the leader though, meaning by the time you get to AA, there will still be plenty of things to research. In addition, I wasn't asking you to account for my situation, but your analysis was biased towards you because you kept mentioning how you would only be researching for half a year to a year. How do you know what my situation is? You don't...I just simply asked to be more open minded and take into other players rather than your own situation.

Furthermore, University leaders take more and more citizens each tier so yes while you can research multiple leaders at the same time, you are setting yourself back from upgrading other buildings. See what I am getting at? Its not that hard to understand. More time saved = more money, more upgrades, more progression more of everything. Time is the one commodity that cannot be gained back when its used unlike the other resources.. Besides, multiple people in this thread have agreed Atomium should be rated much higher, people who have actually tried out all the wonders.

You've been gone for a while and no offense, you don't fully understand the meta wonders nor what their impact because you didn't bother to research them enough and just simply reading them isn't enough to make an accurate judgement call on all the Wonders. I still cant get over the fact that you mentioned that if someone chose Atomium, it's for the weekly wonder reset, which is just absurd. This comment alone just makes you sound very naive and inexperienced.

''If you're getting Atomium, you're only getting it for the weekly reset.'' That's like saying you pick Notre Dame for the daily gold it gives you....

 

[vincentdang4]

LOL as written above, I already did the math for you, I just didn't show the steps to get to those numbers. I'm just telling you that you can do the math to confirm it. Whether you choose the to take that step is up to you. Perhaps I made a mistake somewhere? It would definitely add more weight to this statement: ''78d could be saved from Mansa+Atomium, but I dont think that all came from just Atomium,'' because I can't get to your conclusion with my numbers.

 

[vincentdang4]

Wynne D Fanchon. I think it's time to drop the back and forth. It's clear that we aren't going to change FroggyKilla's mind. It seems that Froggy is writing this review from a Gunpowder perspective. It's a very different game at that Age. Thinking back to Gunpowder, some of these ratings would make sense. The more I read the OP the more I hope other people take it seriously. It's getting quite boring seeing the same wonders in opposing war bases (Acropolis, FC/Colosseum, Versailles). It would be nice to go against some Stonehenges, Notre Dames, and Taj Mahals

 

[vincentdang4]

I find amazing loot for almost no losses from 300-700 medals danron1376. Keep in mind several things: You will climb medals very quickly when you log off as people raid/drop medals on you. There may not be as much oil; and since it's raiders utopia, you will get raided for oil if you start accumulating too much. I spent a year in Empire 2 and Dynasty League. Copper League is BY FAR the BEST medal range to build walls.

 

[vincentdang4]

Agree with most of these ratings. Pentagon would be 5/5 if you have a 4th high level general. With tactics reduction, it's almost impossible to prevent Pentagon general from getting out. Obviously, would be lower rating if the general is say level 11. At that point, it may better to get the United Nations from a purely defense perspective. Atomium is 100% better than +1 villager from Opera House once most of your villagers is learning at the University. But until you reach that point I favor Opera House.

 

[Wynne D Fanchon]

vincentdang4 Yea you're probably right, at this point I think I've read enough of OP to know that he's GP age and writing this as an amateur. I mean come on, 3 trade goods a day is waaaaay better than saving months and months of research on one of the most important buildings in the game.

If the all the times were available for the university I would make a post on how much you'd save with just Atomium, maybe I'll do one on Notre Dame/Library for fun.

 

[BeerMan]

This is an interesting analysis. I think the challenge is that some wonders are good for early age players, some for late age, and some are useful regardless of age. I'm a little surprised that Terra Cotta Army isn't more popular. Having 20 extra troops (especially if your unique unit is rifle/infantry) would be very useful in war attacks. Personally I use Notre Dame from that age for the research discounts, but I could see myself switching to Terra Cotta as I advance further.

 

[The Mighty Fist]

Froggykilla - thanks for putting this thread up. I’m Industrial Age and dithering about which one to go for - I’ve found it very useful, even if there are lots of countervailing opinions out there too!

 

[melheor]

thanks froggy.
i have so much to say that it feels impractical to begin; here is briefest possible constructive criticism.
to you i say ... be more severely critical, you are too positive to some weak choices.
it might be better over in the 'tactics and strategies' forum where it won't get bumped off the top as fast.

1-5 rating *to others in the same age*; across ages it can't have much practical meaning.

stonehenge: 2; pretty; forces design with roads and upgrading caravans.
pyramids: 2; forces upgrading farms; stonehenge/pyramids are for more casual non-raiding players.
acropolis: 5; ubiquitous choice
hanging gardens: 3; pretty, 20%+ faster training blessings (considering you raid for cider as well)

notre dame: 3; pretty. less useful the more obsessive you are raiding. it's unique defensive application might be important to some.
colosseum: 4; ugly but useful. the SoG blessing 'pollutes' your troop display until you use it which i find really irritating.
teracotta: 2; this could be buffed; i like the idea. i think it's pretty too.
forbidden city: 5; almost required for ww.

ankgor wat: 4; ugly. too easy to compensate for to compete with versailles.
taj mahal: 2; mini-british bonus
versailles: 5; boxy but good. imo the global 10% to life clearly outshines angkor.
temple of tikal: 1; mini-korean bonus.

kremlin: 4; it's made a difference in my fights.
statue of liberty: 5; air-lovers choice.
eiffel tower: 0; vault/peace vs strongly influencing the practical game; very weak. imo this is the 'mistake' choice. we disagree here froggy.
brandenburg: 5; bazooka/destroyer/HT lovers choice.

atomium: 5; great when most workers at university; before that consider opera house.
united nations: 2; saves a little extra raiding; underwhelming. the peacekeeping force is good but if you want defense pentagon is better.
sydney opera house: 5; extra citizen is great; expeditions useless considering dramatic opportunity cost.
pentagon: 3; i'm careful not to lose planes -- though the extra general is great

nb (coffee) you're right about atomium; imo it really depends on strategy and planning/thinking whether it's 4 or 5.
nb (manifesto) seems if you want defense pentagon is better but point taken.
nb (manifesto) i especially disfavor stonehenge because it asks you to think about road network and upgrade caravans; i prefer to shape my roads into pretty symbols. i'll +1
nb (vincent) good heuristic

Agree for the most part, except:

Notre Dame: 4 or 5
The resource savings are nothing to sneeze at, in addition to the obvious benefit of saving tons of oil this building allowed me to research strategic improvements without having to wait for my storage to upgrade. If you like to rush, this building is your best friend.

Pentagon: 5
The increased challenge of attacking a player with a Pentagon and a high level general is comparable to Forbidden City. There are several structures in this game that scream at the attacker "ignore me at your peril", they are Missile Silo, Town Center, Forbidden City, Castle, and Pentagon. They effectively allow the defender to influence the angle of attack. Moreover the fact that you are more careful with planes doesn't mean they never die.

Sydney Opera House: 4
Unless you're Chinese, the extra villager is not that useful. You typically need at least 2 villagers for anything decent.

 

[McGregor]

Now that Cold Ware Age has been introduced, does it change something to this analysis ? Like Sydney Opera rather than Atomium for exemple ? More buildings but but not more university researches...