Making the Dock useful for advanced-age players

Quovatis

Approved user
Joined
Aug 29, 2015
Messages
1,454
We've had plenty of these threads in the past, but as we seem to have some developers actually listening now to some extent, I thought I'd bring this up again.

The dock is not useful for players of about industrial age and higher. It takes many workers and the rewards you get for investing many workers for many days is simply not worth it by any measure. For example "Rangoon" requires 4 workers for a 3-day expedition. What do you get for such investment? 2 diamonds and 3 trade good shipments. That's it. You can get those rewards from literally a single multiplayer battle! If you want a troop tactic, the worker and time requirement is even higher: 6 workers and 6 days for a plane. I don't think anyone can justify that investment unless you are a maxed player with nothing else to do. The value of such tactics has decreased now that you can only have a max of 4 at a time. You're much better off spending the worker time on other things and just waiting for the free troop tactics from events.

Furthermore, it's the only building in the game where upgrading it can be argued to make things worse. When you upgrade it, you no longer have access to the lower-level expeditions. Many players would still use the building if the shorter expeditions were still available. For example, sending 2 workers out for 12 hours while you sleep is an attractive option, but that's not available once you upgrade it. I'm sure BHG's stats clearly show the dock is rarely used when upgraded beyond about level 4.

So how do we fix it?

One solution is to simply cut the worker and time requirements dramatically. It should cap out at 4 workers and 2 days. Given the rewards and mechanics as currently implemented, I feel this cap is the longest many players would see value in it. Keep in mind that there is no upgrade to the dock in the Atomic age, so the current cap should be more like 1 day. The 2-day cap would be applied for the Space age. With a 1-day cap, this would fix a lot of things. Not only would players actually use the dock again, it can help combat the ridiculous pay-to-win mechanic introduced in the last year. Enabling players to get troop tactics at a reasonable worker/time cost, will let players have troops to populate their strongholds without paying real money. If these players choose to dedicate workers and time to the dock, they can potentially be competitive with players that spend a lot of money. The paying players will still have an advantage, as those troops are usually better, but at least having dock troops will give others something to work with.

The other option, as brought up many times on the forums, is to change the dock to cost only resources, not workers. In some variants, only a general is required for the expedition (no workers). Others have suggested that expeditions cost only gold/food. In this manner, the expedition return time can be longer (close to what it is now). This would be similar to the submarine from Boom Beach.

I can support either option, but it's clear something needs to be done. Again, the Dock is the only building where it can be a disadvantage to upgrade. No building should be like that. Let players have a reasonable option to obtain troop tactics to combat pay-to-win.
 

LordJestix

Approved user
Joined
May 12, 2017
Messages
805
For me, until im maxed(i dont see that happening for years) i will never ever use the dock in its current state.

I keep my workers busy upgrading. I hold 1 worker for walls and that one is always free. If i had an option to send the worker out over night for an 8 or 12 expedition then id do that.

I upgraded it to level 4 and havent used it since. i would have left it at a level 1 for the fast expeditions had i known it wasnt going to be used.
 

yemen

Approved user
Joined
Mar 24, 2017
Messages
680
Without upgrading it, it is useless because the troop cards you get are aged to the level of the dock, not your level. So a level 4 dock gives medieval troop cards.
With upgrading it, it is useless because the worker time investment is ridiculous.

I upgraded it to level 4 to get the goal off of my list with the old man, and did one expedition with a general to make that goal go away. Haven't used it before or since.

The only way I can picture using this is if we can send generals INSTEAD of workers, rather than in addition to. 0 workers if the expedition takes more than 8 hours, maybe 1-2 if they take less than that (overnight). I don't mind sending off generals though, I have more of those than I need most of the time. You could even scale rewards to the general's level, to increase the incentive to upgrade generals.
 

LordJestix

Approved user
Joined
May 12, 2017
Messages
805
Without upgrading it, it is useless because the troop cards you get are aged to the level of the dock, not your level. So a level 4 dock gives medieval troop cards.
I upgraded it to level 4 to get the goal off of my list with the old man, and did one expedition with a general to make that goal go away. Haven't used it before or since.

I forgot about the quest stuff, must be why i upgraded it and did an expedition.
 

Master Contrail Program

Approved user
Joined
Oct 1, 2016
Messages
350
This is probably the best idea I've seen regarding the dock. I have my 3 upgraded war generals, 2 I'm working on because they're new, and 2 I haven't touched since gunpowder age. The exorbitant upgrade costs make them practically useless unless I ever get to the point where I have nothing else to upgrade. However, even low age troops can make useful decoys and clean up crew if I only had to use those worthless generals to get them.
 

JMoney

Approved user
Joined
Apr 20, 2016
Messages
242
The building has been in the game for almost if not about a year now. And I can say that, outside of doing the quest to open up my quest box, that I have literally not even once used it. So if they designed the building to never be used then they've done a good job. The building really could use a rehaul.
 
Last edited:

Master Contrail Program

Approved user
Joined
Oct 1, 2016
Messages
350
The only time I've used the dock was on a new account that hasn't gotten to gunpowder age yet. When you're maxed out in iron through medieval there's nothing else to do while your town center upgrades.

Once you get university even that tiny window of usefulness closes though.
 

LordJestix

Approved user
Joined
May 12, 2017
Messages
805
While i would like to see this feature improved, id rather it stay useless and have them spend their time fixing the game.
 

Motaz Tarek

Approved user
Joined
Apr 19, 2015
Messages
545
they should have offered a way to get more cards for non premium players since they have forced us to use cards in war (not because tactics nerf but the new stronghold mechanism)
i though marco polo would be it, but i am disappointed that it was only 1 time he offered cards for non crown price

imo dock and marco should be offering a decent rate of card flow to non premium players, or else this game is going to die at the foots of pay2win gradually by time

i witnessed many premium players quitting the game cuz of the crazy amount of money they have to pay now to keep up with top players, nexon lost alot of customers cuz of the frustration pay2win brought, if it's not fixed soon, player loss will be significant enough to impact gameplay
 

IzEagle

Approved user
Joined
Jun 22, 2015
Messages
136
Do you know what I said when the first time saw the expedition? “This idea comes from the boss’s son and no one in Big Huge could say NO to that baby boy!” lol. Even if I have free workers and have nothing to do with them I prefer to upgrade my useless farms. What Expedition needs is a revamp not a simple modification.
 

Player Killer

Approved user
Joined
Aug 15, 2016
Messages
73
I built the Sydney Opera house so i can go on expedition with my extra worker or maybe am i just an Aussie.
 

Quovatis

Approved user
Joined
Aug 29, 2015
Messages
1,454
if all expeditions only needed one citizen that would be great, but that's not the case.
 

Krieg

Approved user
Joined
Jan 27, 2017
Messages
78
Quovatis , you did hit the point, again. Your posts are among the most instigating in this chat. You don't simply complain. You have ideas. Congrats. I agree that dock needs to do reinvented. Cut the expeditions times or the amount of citizens needed. Or, better, allow the players to choose between destinations on lower levels.
 

Butcherer

Approved user
Joined
Oct 21, 2015
Messages
37
I had a thought about this the other day... Why not expand the naval aspect of the game? I think this may have been mentioned in the past but I am talking very minor changes at this time.

How about a specialised dock based house. Building the house costs resources (a lot of resources as other houses have cost through the ages), and upgrading it or building more dock houses costs even more (yes there could even be an offer for a dock house that costs crowns. The point of a dock house being the provision of sailors. Sailors go on quests instead of your regular population or you can use a combination of both if you do not have enough sailors for a particular quest.

Sailors could then be used to build any other naval type building to be released in the future.

There could also be a dock master's house with a dock-master who acts a general for expedition purposes instead of sending one of your generals away for weeks at a time.

Just an idea :)

If the use of the dock cost nothing other than some initial investment in this way .... I would use it!
 

Manifesto

Approved user
Joined
Sep 26, 2016
Messages
1,920
Quovatis said:
Not only would players actually use the dock again, it can help combat the ridiculous pay-to-win mechanic introduced in the last year. Enabling players to get troop tactics at a reasonable worker/time cost, will let players have troops to populate their strongholds without paying real money
And that, my friend, is the answer to why they don't improve the dock!
 

Green Bird

Approved user
Joined
Jun 27, 2017
Messages
183
We are trying to second guess the designer intent here but I would say the Dock caters to those who have already upgraded everything and dislike seeing their citizens doing nothing. I am sure developers have data that shows them that such a building is needed. For the rest of us the Dock will remain an 'aspirational' building for as long as any worker requirement is maintained for its expeditions.
 

LordJestix

Approved user
Joined
May 12, 2017
Messages
805
We are trying to second guess the designer intent here but I would say the Dock caters to those who have already upgraded everything and dislike seeing their citizens doing nothing. I am sure developers have data that shows them that such a building is needed. For the rest of us the Dock will remain an 'aspirational' building for as long as any worker requirement is maintained for its expeditions.

It was WAY WAY too early to add this to the game then, with 3 more ages planned there will be a lot more to upgrade and no workers to use on the dock.
 
Top