Ranged Infantry better than Heavy Infantry?

[JMasunikov]

Everytime I go into battle, I always lose most if not all of my heavy infantry (nodachi samurai) while most of my arquebusiers survive. Is this the case with anybody else? I usually notice the top players in the leader board use ranged infantry as their main troop. Because I always lose a large portion of my samurai, it has made me consider switching to a different nation (Korea, Britain). Anybody have any success with heavy infantry?

 

[IzEagle]

Up to EA the nations with ranged infantry have a great advantage especially British and Korean but in EA you will unlock gatling gun who do splash damage and can replace ranged infantry. In IA more important unit is tank and planes and so for IA my recommendation is Greek, French or German

 

[astero]

In IA more important unit is tank and planes and so for IA my recommendation is Greek, French or German

I agree with your assessment of these three nations being the best choices. As far as France vs Greece are concerned, which heavy unit do you consider to be better? The French one with 20% more health and 15% more damage or the Greek one with 10% more health and 25% more damage?

 

[Cielmers]

In my experience all the player that 5 starred my base used artillery and range infantry combination and in my medal range there is so rare player that use tank as their 5 starred army and tank only used for TC snipe. Tank (the normal one not the Heavy tank) are so hard to control because of tank will rush to defense building and suddenly stop in the front of anty tank gun to kill the defender and just die. Just ask the other top player about this if you don't believe. Also why do you think that brit are the one of the best 3 war nation? For its 15% bonus? Range infantry are the best uniqe unit.

 

[IzEagle]

Fortunately all nations are almost balanced and wining in each nation requires its own special strategies. For example if you have samurai you should look for bases with lower walls.
All 5 stars on my base were by planes and tanks, they disable anti tank defense first.
Advantage of British is +1 block range they can hit enemy defense before getting hitted, of course you should deploy them correctly.
I prefer Greek tank its more beautiful , and more damage is better, you can compensate the hp by healing tactic.
Also German is 15% on every thing including ranged infantry and quicker rally so it worth to be considered.

 

[astero]

In my case I rely on the heavies to do all the damage and the only building I'm scared of is the cannon tower (especially if I cannot rally again and my heavies are attacking other defensive buildings even though a cannon tower is within range and taking them out one by one). Obviously raiders for mop-up once there is no defence left as heavies cannot do that job with any efficirency. Also, surprisingly I have really gotten to like the guerilla/saboteur unit.

Then again I am not the guy who aims for 5-stars. I only care about getting as much resources as possible, in as little time as possible, to kick-start the next research/upgrade. So I aim for loss-less battles though of course quite often you need to make a sacrifice and lose quite a few units because the rewards are still worth it.

I agree with you that range infantry is very effective though. Especially against cannon tower that are surrounded by walls. Seems like the ranged units can just take out the tower without even touching the walls, leaving cannon towers pretty much defenceless!

 

[Ravenlord]

JM, if you're taking on early GA bases or lower, foot soldiers can be very effective - not so much if you're going for higher levels. You pretty much answered your own question when you said you lose most of your infantry but the arqubusiers survived. I play as Romans & Brits (IA) and Germans (EA) and in all 3 the ranged units make up about 40% of my army - it's a perfect composition if you want to 3-5 star. (my Brits 5 starred a lvl 136 base with lvl9 walls today - with 7 secs to spare - tough but rewarding!)

Anyway, a few tanks to distract fire or absorb cannon fire, a few footsies to clean up or snipe TC and 3-4 artillery for general destruction. Yes, planes are good for taking out annoying cannons & catapaults but they can't 5-star - unless you're a hacker.

 

[ivan.]

If you keep in mind that ranged infantry a staple to protecting any mixed army, then its no surprise that the nations with some of the best uniques are the Brits and the Koreans. So I agree with Cielmers that ranged archers are obviously better.

Korean archers have increased damage, and when they're in large numbers they easily take down heavy tanks and generals like cake.

British archers have increased range which in my opinion, make them the best uniques in the game by default. There's a reason why a boxer's reach is important in the ring. If you can hit your opponent without them reaching you then it's clearly an advantage. Same idea here. The British archers are able to kill defenders before they even have a chance to shoot back and can destroy redoubts outside their range. Literally all you have to worry about are mortars and your AI not being dumb.

It's why many players are able to 5 star bases with archer spams and a few carefully placed sabotages on mortars. I left out the Chinese because although their archers shoot twice as fast, that doesn't mean much when their shots are only 60% as powerful as regular archers.

Heavy infantry are practically useless now ever since they were nerfed, and it's no surprise archers are filling their unit space instead. Heavy infantry are always the first to die and are ripped to shreds by redoubts and mortars. Pre-nerf, they used to be solid in the early ages when their common enemy were single shot towers and the occasional catapult. Now, post-nerf and in higher ages, they get vaporized within seconds when walking near a level 3 redoubt. Again, no one selects Roman for their unique, they do it for the army size.

 

[ivan.]

I prefer Greek tank its more beautiful , and more damage is better, you can compensate the hp by healing tactic.

I agree that the Companion tank looks nice but it's definitely in the running for the dumbest name in the game lol. Sounds like some sort of dog that I never bother to train.

And I completely DISAGREE that more damage is better... After their double, triple? nerf treatment, tanks have been demoted to mindless meat shields. So considering this role, its clear that French tanks are the better of the two. The St. Chamond tank has more hit points and can therefore survive and distract defenders longer. Meanwhile Companion tanks think they're big shots with their damage but they're still no match for anti-tank guns. You'd probably need 5 or more healing tucks to compensate a single anti-tank gun shot.

Increased damage for tanks is pointless when you have artillery that has much more damage, can shoot over walls, and doesn't walk right up to anti-tank guns to take a closer look. Oh and by the way is one less unit space!

The Greek nation may as well be scrapped and redesigned when you consider all its other bonus flaws.

And by the way, I say this all as a Greek player myself. You can learn more here: https://forum.nexonm.com/forum/nexon...nation-of-suck

 

[Ravenlord]

Agree. That's why HC should replace infantry later on. Once HC become tanks their 'survivability' increases. I was reluctant to upgrade my HC's but so glad I did! (and I'm not French or Greek)

 

[Ravenlord]

Increased damage for tanks is pointless when you have artillery that has much more damage, can shoot over walls, and doesn't walk right up to anti-tank guns to take a closer look. [/URL]

I know right?! I hate it when my tank goes in for a closer look, then decides ''Nah, I'm gonna turn around and kill this puny foot soldier first'' - no prizes for guessing what happens next ... !

 

[astero]

And I completely DISAGREE that more damage is better... After their double, triple? nerf treatment, tanks have been demoted to mindless meat shields. So considering this role, its clear that French tanks are the better of the two. The St. Chamond tank has more hit points and can therefore survive and distract defenders longer.

I think another important difference is the French unique ability to produce units faster. With the training blessing in full swing I can produce a Greek heavy unit (Stradioti) in just 1 min 11 secs, but playing France you can apparently churn one out every 29 or 30 seconds.

I know a lot of people don't think much of the other Greek bonuses but I do enjoy the 5% cashback and being able to finish research/buildings earlier (up to 40 minutes earlier at present).

 

[ivan.]

Even neglecting Frances's nation bonus, the St. Chamond better serves as a tank than the Companion. And when you do consider France's additional bonuses of increased training time and increased alliance troop space then the unbalanced disparity between the two heavy cavalry nations becomes blatantly obvious.

The 5% refund is really insignificant when you consider that some upgrades can last up to 12 days etc. and you'l be waiting that long for your refund. Meanwhile, other nations like the Brits were recently buffed up to a 15% loot bonus for every battle, and I guarantee you that they'll outpace any resources that we gain waiting 12 days for ours.

Also in Industrial Age or in the higher Dynasty Leagues, a single battle or league bonus will net you more gold than the refund you receive only once the upgrade finishes. And by the same token, finishing a 12 day upgrade 40 minutes earlier and calling it an advantage is some sort of joke.

Greece is in severe need of some sort of buff or complete re-haul because as terrible as they are now, they're completely useless in the end-game when their bonuses serve no purpose.

Have yet to see a maxed player sporting Greece. Maybe I'll be the first out of sheer absurdity.

 

[Ravenlord]

I agree about Greece needing a buff. Maybe all the other nations can get together and give all the Greek players out there a once-only financial stimulus package to help them get through the tough times. I nominate each Brit, Roman & French player out there to donate 5000 gold / 5000 food / 200 oil to every Greek player.
As there's probably only about 17 Greek players it shouldn't take too long .....

 

[astero]

I'm just thinking how they could improve Greece without overdoing it. I don't think they'll go to a 10% rebate, but maybe turning things upside-down and giving the rewards up front would be a welcome change? So just lowering the cost by 5% instead of a completion rebate?

I do agree that 40 mins on a 8 or sometimes 10 day wait is just not right and ceases to have any meaning. Instead of 5 mins per age they should bump it so that it's progressively raised, so once you get to the IA it should be 1hr per age instead of the 5 mins. Even then it won't be a massive game-changer, but at least the perk would have some meaning.

 

[FroggyKilla]

How about a 15% cost reduction? Refunds are just awful unless they're instant like Korea's UA, Temple of Tikal (anyone even get this wonder?), and Storage Blessing.

 

[Barns]

Up to EA the nations with ranged infantry have a great advantage especially British and Korean but in EA you will unlock gatling gun who do splash damage and can replace ranged infantry. In IA more important unit is tank and planes and so for IA my recommendation is Greek, French or German

Gatling Guns would be great for this if they didn't take up FOUR spaces compared to the ONE taken up by infantry. I used them for a bit when I first upgraded my factory but soon realised that they died far too quickly in the small numbers that you can deploy without taking up half or more of your overall troop space. Personally, I'm very tempted to switch from Greek, which I've stuck with through thick and thin, to British just for their ranged infantry since attacks I get from British Yeomanry kill me since they destroy defences before they can even fight back and destroy defending troops before they can get anywhere near them....

And, as for our tanks, they're stupid as many people have said before. Their description says they go straight for defensive buildings but they don't. They hang around in a crowd of defenders next to a big gun blowing up individual soldiers when they should really be shrugging them off and heading directly to the stables and garrisons which are actually producing said defenders. I can't imagine a heavily-armoured tank really being that bothered by a man with a rifle...

However, to be fair, we must remember the days when a Greek army consisting solely of our heavy cavalry could 5-star pretty much any base in no time at all! Happy days...

 

[Mr Suplex]

Heavy infantry got a bit of a buff relative to ranged infantry with the new Level 4 Cast Iron library upgrade. They are still lacking, but something is better than nothing.