Ranged units are rubbish

[Gambrinus]

So it seems my ranged units would rather throw stones at a bag of gold then kill off defenders that want to take them out. This is totally obnoxious and needs to be fixed asap. The whole point of ranged units is to stick with the vulnerable units and protect them from defenders, and they do a horrible job at both those task.

This makes all nations with unique ranged units (Korean, British, Chinese) totally worthless, and the units pointless for all other nations that want to use a mixed army.

I'm not asking that the ranged units run across the map just to take out a defender, but anytime a defender is within their normal range, they should stop attacking building, and focus on taking out said defender.

Please fix the AI and make these units do their job properly.

 

[atramar]

Interesting.
I find it that ranged units AI is actually better then most from my current arsenal...(right after HC and wall breakers which does exactly what they are programmed to do, so do saboteurs - I hear)
yes, they could be reacting faster and smarter, but compared to the rest of squad, they are angels.

soldiers: random... attacking what is closer despite the fact of being shot down by redoubts, towers and artilery towers. (poof)
healers: ignoring fact of being hit, waiting for death, constantly blocked by pile of grass and not moving at all.... (poof)
cannons: ignoring being shot at by a building they are designed to destroy, taking detour to randomly appointed target...(poof)
raiders: there are 3 farms on my left? meh, I will try passing this lvl 10 wall to get that single pile of gold that's behind it....(poof)
general: hey healers, I'm just passing buy, I see you have friends with enemy calvary, so I will move over to that nice balista over there, see ya. (poof)

 

[Tower]

So agree. I used to be Chinese, liked the extra worker and the firing rate of the rifleman/archer but learned fast that they were "useless". Gatlings have the same problem. Wandering off by themselves, not staying with the shock inf or tanks to protect them from defenders...

There should be more rally and tactic functions. Like different rally for each troop. At least for EA and up, I understand it can be complicated for newbies, but...

Even better, there should be a tactic functions so that you could let say divide your army into 2-3 companies of mixed units and send each to a different place and then control the different "companies" separately in battle to new places as needed by having a company 1, company 2 etc rally function.

 

[Gambrinus]

atramar i hear you on the deffencies of the other units, their ai is lacking in all the ways you've pointed out. i just didn't want to open that can of worms.

I was just focusing on the unique unit for my nation who's only job it is to protect other units from defenders, but it's a job they refuse to do. it gets tiresome to watch defenders come across the map unchallenged, then kill of a good chunk of them, and maybe a supply wagon or cannon before the riflemen react. what's the point of having a range of 7, if they don't engage a defender until they are at point blank?

 

[Gambrinus]

i really like the idea of the multiple companies and a rally for each one. maybe they could be placed via a flag, like the merc unit and alli troops, and have a better built in ai that keeps them together as a squad.

 

[atramar]

I see, I get your point, and pretty much agree with it

 

[Redgar]

Well, actually they are not that bad. They are just designed to work with cannons, so all buildings in their area are cleared. But I agree they could switch to defenders faster at least when attacked like raiders do.

 

[Gambrinus]

Well, actually they are not that bad. They are just designed to work with cannons, so all buildings in their area are cleared. But I agree they could switch to defenders faster at least when attacked like raiders do.

well that's part of the problem, they don't stick with and protect the cannons and supply wagons. they tend to spilt apart from each other rather quickly, even if they are deployed at the same spot. i have countless matches that i lose my army because the riflemen could care less about their duties, and instead think it's wise to attack a bag of gold on the other side of the map.

all that i ask is that they stay with the vulnerable units and protect them (aka doing their job), and stop running around attacking building (this is the job of cannons, foot soldiers, tanks, and raiders)

 

[Endril]

Actually gambrinus I would have to disgree with you. The ranged unique units are much better than the assault troops.

I would gladly swap, yes the AI does need some more work but it isn't just the ranged units. I've had units of tanks also inexplicably go the long way round to attack a defensive building when their is obviously one closer but behind a wall. Supply having people close by to heal but they decide to rush of to the other side of the screen to heal a distraction troop. Their are lots of problem with the AI however I wouldn't say that ranged units are rubbish. In fact even though my special as romans is a assault unit I dont build very many and at least 5 times more range units. In fact they make the second largest proportion of my army.

Thats my opinion on ranged units.

Endril

 

[Gambrinus]

if you want to make a thread about the inadequacies of foot soldiers, I'm not gonna stop you or disagree that they don't have their own set of issue. nor will i disagree with the fact that all troops have major problems with routing, especially when you use rally.

but this thread is about ranged units in particular, and their shortcomings. since i play British, and since ranged is my unique unit, i see all of their ai failures multiple times a day and wanted to spotlight them. not compare them to other units or get into a debate about which unit has the worst ai.

 

[Endril]

If you noticed I agreed that the AI is lacking, however as the title of your post was that ranged units are rubbish. I was just pointing out that in the current mechanic and balance that I would swap a foot soldier for a ranged unique in a heart beat.

So was just asking that rather than discuss the inadequacy of the unit suggesting that the focus for the developers focus on the AI.

I think that one of the most basic aspect of the AI that needs fixing is that if a unit is being attacked it should defend itself.

If you feel like I'm hijacking your thread I won't comment any more. Just thought the whole point of a forum is for people to comment and discuss things.

Endril

 

[Gambrinus]

sorry, i don't mean to stifle the conversation. i do agree with you that in most situations a unit that is attacked by a defender, should respond by attacking back. but there are situations where that would cause more trouble than it's worth. especially when you need those troops to take down a redoubt tower (or other problematic defense structures) but instead get into it with a pikeman from an ambush trap, which causes much heavier losses to the entire army.

also, i played as roman for a long time, so i feel your pain with the inadequacy of the foot soldiers, that's the reason i switched to British. beyond fixing their ai, i think they need a serious buff to make them usable at EA/IA level in the game.

 

[Endril]

Gambrinus thanks for the discussion it is a pleasure to have a conversation with another player who is thoughtful and willing to defend their point of view.

Maybe a solution is for all troops except for canons/artillery to defend against being attacked. Canons would then always target buildings. I also agree that ranged troops should always attack the enemy troops in priority over all other targets. While it may not be perfect it would definitely improve upon the current AI and clever use of rally should be able to minimise the loses.

Endril

 

[Annunaki]

Its the A.I its all messed up.

 

[Guest]

We now have a better tool to grab replays, so if you have a particular example of bad AI, please report it to CS and we can pull it to show the programmers.

 

[Gambrinus]

the biggest issue tends to be when a defender gets behind the mass of archers and cannons moving forward. the defender will attack the pack, and pick them off one by one. the only real way to get them to target the defender is to rally to some point that forces the units to reposition and make the defender in front of them.

I'll check over my replays from tonight and point a few out to in game CS.

 

[Gambrinus]

man, this is getting old... i rally all troops to one side of the map, then as soon as the get to that point, all the riflemen go one way, and the cannons go the other. what's it gonna take to make them stick together?

 

[Gambrinus]

I've submitted a ticket to cs to review ranged unit behavior. is there any chance you can also review that same replay?

 

[Gambrinus]

No Title

so according to cs, the riflemen don't give a dang about protecting other units. they claim is due to the fact they have different targeting priorities, but that's bs, cause both units have the same favorite target of any.

so please get the devs to fix this. we need units to stick together or else they are too weak in small groups and get killed easily.

 

[domi870152]

British is still strong