Tanks better than cav yet?

[Nerdjitsu]

I was surprised in the recent patch when BHG did nothing to improve tanks vs their cavalry predecessor. I've been in industrial a while now, and I have purposely not upgraded to tanks because cavalry seem better, for reasons that have been discussed on these forums. Very modest increase in attack/hp vs enlightened cav (pound-for-pound, pop-space-wise); range causes rear troops to take mortar splash; range causes melee infantry to be front line and die even faster; slower (though this one may be optical illusion); less efficient healing with carts (due to fewer targets for carts). I may be forgetting some more issues.

I thought these issues were common knowledge, and really expected BHG to do something to make them worthwhile. I have been able to upgrade to tanks for months but haven't because as far as I can tell they're worse than enlightened cav, and I've upgraded every other mainline troop but stuck with heavy cav and have been doing great. Am i wrong? Is it still best to stick with cav? Would really love to hear from some people that have recently made the switch.

My civ/army: chinese, 4 canons, 3 heal trucks, 5-6 heavy cav, 42-48 manchu rifles.

Keep in mind I'm talking POUND FOR POUND; I realize that a single tank is better than a single cav, but I'm talking best use of space considering that tanks take 2/3rds more population.

 

[Vissor]

I tried all combinations, and every single time i come back to raiders...best and most boring way to loot

 

[dbukalski]

lov the name nerdjitsu. the analysis ur talking about is not as well known as u think. since i posted it. even my closest compatriots ignored it and now regret it. so im surprised and impressed that u did. and u did it so thoroughly u felt it was obvious to bhg. usa elite top players, or me more specifically no longer share our best insights on the forums where they will be used by the masses then nerfed. there are other similar insights we have into the nature of units other than just tanks.

a tiny percentage of players will ever accept what ur talking about. bhg stats will show them that people use tanks at a reasonable rate. i would be shocked if a buff was coming

an infantry buff is the most likely next unit change....but i will not go into that further here.

every so often a player comes along whos got talent sending u a private message

 

[Nerdjitsu]

lov the name nerdjitsu. the analysis ur talking about is not as well known as u think. since i posted it. even my closest compatriots ignored it and now regret it. so im surprised and impressed that u did. and u did it so thoroughly u felt it was obvious to bhg. usa elite top players, or me more specifically no longer share our best insights on the forums where they will be used by the masses then nerfed. there are other similar insights we have into the nature of units other than just tanks.

a tiny percentage of players will ever accept what ur talking about. bhg stats will show them that people use tanks at a reasonable rate. i would be shocked if a buff was coming

an infantry buff is the most likely next unit change....but i will not go into that further here.

every so often a player comes along whos got talent sending u a private message

Yeah, I warned everybody in my clan too, they ignored me, went ahead and upgraded, and immediately regretted it.

Obviously, it's flawed logic that the widespread use of tanks means they are as good as their predecessors... Once you upgrade to them, it's not like you have a choice anymore, as you gotta have SOME kind of meat shield.

I don't know how people can't see it just by watching defensive replays. All other things being equal, just watching other players attack my town it seems pretty clear that cav are superior to tanks. Sometimes I really wonder if anybody at bhg plays their own game.

I guess i was hoping, with their long-standing affinity for "hidden", undocumented changes, that maybe a tank buff slipped through the cracks. I can understand BHG's hesitance to buff any meat shield, after the supercav of 4-8 months ago. But they really gotta do something to make an upgrade better than its predecessor.

One thing that is interesting is that tanks are listed as melee range. I forget if they always were. But in practice, I've noticed that sometimes they come within melee range of a defensive building and attack, sometimes they shoot from afar. Doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason.

But anyway, guess you're saying it's still best to stick with cav, eh? I figured as much, as nothing has changed, but I guess I just wanted a reason to upgrade. Heh, biggest reason is probably cuz I feel bad donating cav at level 140 to all the lower levels in my clan, who are (wrongly) excited every time they get a tank donated to their gate.

 

[dbukalski]

thats pretty much it. just people getting excited about one tank when they could have 2 cav(almost)

 

[JuDomines]

Dbukalski you gave the exact opposite advice in another thread on the same question... So long story short, all the calculation about HP/DPS are true, there are no question about that. BUT theory is just that, theory. And that's the problem when looking only at HP/DPS ignoring other factors. There are practical advantages with tanks that you can't feel before you actually play them. One of this is the combo with healers (optionally with protect and armor blessing). Since you'll have less units with tanks, they'll spread less on the battlfield and are better healed. In addition, the increase HPS makes the healer most effective when you rally your army together. You just get most of the healer ability with higher HPs units. The range also helps saving units (mainly when you attack bases that don't have IA canons yet). There are other slight advantages but I'm too lazy to list them here and now. I was very skeptical with tank at first, but I upgraded anyway. And I dont regret it. At the end of the day, i'd conclude tanks are a minor improvement over cav but still slightly better.

 

[Magnifico]

I wish the mechanics of this game were better explained. I frequently find myself not knowing even really basic information. In this case: do healers heal a flat amount, or a percentage of the target's max HP? How that works makes a big difference in whether tanks are more survivable than HC.

 

[dbukalski]

I wish the mechanics of this game were better explained. I frequently find myself not knowing even really basic information. In this case: do healers heal a flat amount, or a percentage of the target's max HP? How that works makes a big difference in whether tanks are more survivable than HC.

It says how much damage it heals. Whats the confusion?

 

[dbukalski]

Dbukalski you gave the exact opposite advice in another thread on the same question... So long story short, all the calculation about HP/DPS are true, there are no question about that. BUT theory is just that, theory. And that's the problem when looking only at HP/DPS ignoring other factors. There are practical advantages with tanks that you can't feel before you actually play them. One of this is the combo with healers (optionally with protect and armor blessing). Since you'll have less units with tanks, they'll spread less on the battlfield and are better healed. In addition, the increase HPS makes the healer most effective when you rally your army together. You just get most of the healer ability with higher HPs units. The range also helps saving units (mainly when you attack bases that don't have IA canons yet). There are other slight advantages but I'm too lazy to list them here and now. I was very skeptical with tank at first, but I upgraded anyway. And I dont regret it. At the end of the day, i'd conclude tanks are a minor improvement over cav but still slightly better.

I mess with people. Cant remember who i was responding to but the guys clueless. Its better for me if people upgrade to tanks

 

[JuDomines]

I see. A very reliable guy...

 

[dbukalski]

I see. A very reliable guy...

not for u. for people who pay attention, have a clue and for my alliance

nerdjitsu figured it out from the info i gave. guys like redgar figured things out by listening to my info. even when i was feeding bull s*?! he wasnt thrown off the trail

 

[Ravenlord]

I see. A very reliable guy...

Leave dbuk alone. All he's doing is making it a level playing field - while he rides the mower. (or is it a tank?)

 

[Alex_Brach]

If you visit the forums regularly, you'll probably notice that dbuk is one of the people contributing the most with genuine knowledge...

 

[JuDomines]

Don't worry, to me he's no more than an anectode.

 

[dbukalski]

ouch. i dont think i can recover from that....dear diary, today judomines broke up with me

 

[JuDomines]

Blablabla. Who cares?

 

[dbukalski]

i care. i crack myself up

 

[Ravenlord]

Idk ..... you?!

 

[JuDomines]

You're like a kid who absolutely want to have the last word... Pls do me favor, throw in another comment so that you feel happy and confortable and we'll stop this stupid thread here.

 

[Jane Monroe]

Bla blah blah blah blah.

When you have 2000 posts, sharing info and strategy I might take what you say to heart, but until then you're just another kid who has to have the last stupid word.