Wall-hack

[brute]

Bugreports and cheaters

The game is good but way buggy and got alot of glitches.

Im not sure how people abuse it but its obvious that some people do.

What I don't understand is why the team doesnt simply remove the ones that is cheating. Seems like a supereasy fix to add a line in the user agreement that all known abuses of the games idea may be removed freely by the administrators of the game. No refunds will be done due to users lack of sportsmanship.

Why don't you just delete all these players from the game?

Buglist:
- Loss /loss - Alot of times the attackers lose their attack on but somehow gets a star without killing townhall or more than 20% of the town, loses and yet still the defender gets a loss as well. Seems like a bug to me.
- Crash during battle, crash during switching between battles, "next battle"-button or whatever it says.
- And mentioned glitches in abusing players.

I know there's alot more than these but these are the critical bugs that came of the top of my head. Other improvements and such can be mentioned later on.

 

[neoncity]

Wait.. I thought I was just summing up facts, for the most part..

But seriously, it's not about the (temporary) presence of bugs, nor is it about the money.
It's the ambiguity of Nexon's replies on this forum to date that is both baffling and discouraging.

We want to keep our player's trust..

Hi Jesse. If the above truly is the case: we’re people. Treat us as such.
We have earned the right for some transparency (got beat to the punch but saying it anyway).

 

[BusyBee]

Having worked in product development and technical support for a gaming company for over 10 years, I can't help but feel for the support and dev team here because quick blanket solutions are rarely a practical or even prudent option, if even possible. Often times such an approach can't be done without adversely affecting "innocent" accounts, and when you have tier based record entries, the trickle up/down effect can make it impossible. Not being privy to the source, I can't say if that is the case but logic would dictate that if the solution were that simple the dev team would have implemented it and we'd have an update available or forthcoming because it's in their best interest to do so. Clearly they want this product to succeed and continue to make money so it behooves them to provide the quickest and best solution.

That said, I understand the frustration from a user standpoint. I'm sure the EULA states something about circumventing game restrictions/restraints, hacking, reverse engineering, or exploiting bugs etc breaches the license agreement. If that's the case, then I agree with other users that users who have done so should be punished either by having to start over (once these bugs that permit such exploits are fixed and have their accounts disabled until that time) and possibly a duration ban in the interim.

It is unfair when people are spending money to allow such users to continue having an unfair advantage or even continue breaching the license agreement. Due to this issue, I won't be purchasing any more crowns until this issue is resolved (not because I'm trying to "punish" the developer, but because my money could go to waste when certain players have an unfair advantage due to a bug in the game (as apposed to using a hack for which there may be no dev remedy)).


Users can show patience but only when they believe something is being done, like seeing user accounts disabled while the bug they are exploiting is being fixed, and some form of punishment for breaching the license agreement (whether that means starting over, dura ban, or perma ban).

 

[neoncity]

Thanks Busy, nice addition there, welcome to the forum.
Here’s what I’d like to understand though.

Hypothetical algorithm run:


1. checking for the current age on a player's account (let’s say, mine - I am in the Medieval Age, which by the age default means that I have 80 walls available to me)

2. checking player’s completed Ramparts upgrades: a ch.1 completion of the Ramparts research allows for 5 additional walls, completing ch.3 allows for another 5 additional walls - THAT’S IT!
No additional wall upgrades, simply nothing else to consider here! There is a max add-on of 10 walls available. Period.

3. check total sum of walls on player’s account, considering the values found in steps 1 and 2 above
[my current happens to be 85, as I’m still in the progress of completing ch.3 of said Ramparts upgrade) - so, my value should be 85 and, whaddaya know, it actually is 85!

so

- considering the potential existence of other bugs/glitches that may affect the wall count - I'm not sure if there actually are any, but let’s be lenient and allow for a max 2 deviation -

4. if my wall total is anything over 87 (the original 85 + max deviation 2), the algorithm instantly deals with my account (whether by a wipe/reset or by a ban) as I've clearly constructed more walls than should be allowed by the game.


If this is truly such a complicated thing to implement, then what am I missing here?

It seems like a very basic calculation, a ping-and-response type thing.
I don’t see how anyone but the cheaters would be affected by such a blanket fix, nor how it would complicate things in any way.

 

[Whatwhat]

Who cares if it results in errors with their accounts!!! This is such b/s! We have been paying and they have been cheating. Delete their accounts.

 

[Whatwhat]

Neon I have an easier method. Get aulia to look through the top 200 list and count walls/catapults. Delete all the accounts of cheaters. If this is not resolved soon you need to give us a refund, and I will begin to tell my guild (top 100 and none of us a going for medals yet) to start posting reviews on the playstore about this game being just about cheaters. 50 negative reviews at the top of the list will have a pretty negative affect I imagine...

 

[BusyBee]

Like I said, I won't even guess what their code looks like, but if they are like us, they tend to create all sorts of other data tied to each object and user (for current and/or reference use). Deleting those wall objects could present a whole pile of issues (I don't know).

As for simply banning someone based on an object count, you probably could write and run a ban script based on something simple which is why I said it would be helpful to see these user accounts disabled in the interim while the bug is being fixed. However, we don't know if they yet have a ban feature. Maybe there is no way to disable an account yet, I don't know (the game is in beta, no? as much as an oversight as that would be).

Even if you could ban, we don't know yet what's implemented to determine how (and/or if) that could or should affect group-type stats (any group this player may be part of - should their rank as a whole be affected by one player? What do you do with a group rank and other group data? Anything? Is it fair to leave group data as-is when one or more players may have contributed to that rank/data unfairly? There are a lot of questions you have to ask when doing something so "simple". You have to tread carefully when making any changes or you could introduce even more bugs.

" the algorithm instantly deals with my account"
Right there, as a developer, you are going to be asking yourself a lot of questions about how to deal with the account (both politically and physically) because each way you deal with it will likely have consequences (especially ones we simply can't see as mere users).

I appreciate that you are frustrated, as am I. I too would like to see some sort of action with respect to these accounts but all I'm saying is we need to be a bit more patient and give the devs time to determine the best way to deal with it and for inner politics to decide what "punishment" (if any) such accounts might receive, and deal with how that decision affects anything else we don't know about.

Decisions like this aren't typically made by one person. There is usually an internal process just to providing an update (prioritizing bugs, deciding how to deal with them and if/how that may affect other code, how to apply the update without screwing up the existing game play/data, etc). Sometimes "dealing with an account" means you have to make significant code changes to implement those changes and find you have to change a lot of the data structure (which can affect all users). So the process takes time. You can't typically just have one dev write a script to parse, change, purge, and/or create data (such as a ban state), it's a process that takes discussion and time.

I'm just suggesting we give them some time to sort this out (since you can bet this isn't the only bug they are dealing with or trying to fix for the next update, and let's face it, it's not exactly a fatal show-stopper) and see where we are in a few weeks from now.

That said, it would be nice if they keep us in-the-loop on their progress (perhaps a forum news item so the staff poster isn't bombarded). We have a "Dev News" section on our website with WIP's and bug fixes which helps alleviate a lot of support messages and forum posts pertaining to those issues (with a disclaimer that such WIP's and fixes aren't written in stone, for obvious reasons).

 

[BusyBee]

Neon I have an easier method. Get aulia to look through the top 200 list and count walls/catapults. Delete all the accounts of cheaters. If this is not resolved soon you need to give us a refund, and I will begin to tell my guild (top 100 and none of us a going for medals yet) to start posting reviews on the playstore about this game being just about cheaters. 50 negative reviews at the top of the list will have a pretty negative affect I imagine...

That would be extremely time consuming and counterproductive at this stage, IMO because reducing the number of online players (especially new ones) doesn't help anyone's cause, it just means the game (which you must enjoy) may go belly up or make it so they cannot afford to add new features (or fix lower priority bugs, or any). Getting more players onboard with more voices (and thus more clout) will have more of an impact. Granted, there is always a limit, but I hardly think that limit has been reached. It's not like this is a fatal bug they are blatantly ignoring. As the staff here has pointed out in multiple posts, this (and any) issue should be reported through support (and by more people, the better) since they are likely the ones who attend morning meetings or have a better avenue for getting these issues on the devs desk. I don't blame you for not wanting to spend any more money, but I'm sure if you read the EULA you'll find you're not entitled to any sort of refund due to bugs in the game (which is typical of software license agreements).

 

[neoncity]

See, that is how you respond to people making inquiries. Substantial information.
Thanks Busy, much appreciated.

So, you mentioned deleting walls: this was never something that I had in mind, as it's only a modification without any measures.

Disabling accounts: surely this will be implemented at some point.
For the current situation, however, it seems rather excessive.
Mainly implementation-wise, I presume, as simply deleting user progress data to reset that account to 0 seems much faster (probably cheaper too, I guess?).
The crowns are the only thing I haven’t bothered figuring out yet.
Heck, 100% crown restoration alongside the full wipe, perhaps.

The group-type stats: full deletion of medals earned so far. Ground zero.
Too bad for the affected group (and their rank), perhaps, but it’s not like you can actually hide a visual exploit anyway.
Surely the majority already knew in the first place, so I see no lack of fairness here.

Now I’m not a programmer but I certainly respect the people who are.
What I’m just trying to wrap my mind around is whether it really is that difficult or that big of a decision to make, to create a basic process that grabs 2 (specific) numbers, adds them up, then based on the outcome either does or doesn’t get triggered to delete all progress (as mentioned above).

Does it not sound like a stable fix?


Anyway, having typed all that.. we all know we wouldn't be here had Nexon approached this thing differently from the get-go.
Granted, it's only been 3 months and change (make it 4) since the original release, I believe.
That isn’t a lot of time to ease people into a continuously changing & expanding environment, but this isn’t exactly ’coming prepared’ either.

The ball is in their court now, that's all I know.
You've been a major help for sure though.

 

[Andy]

You know what.... even showing the "intent" to sort things out would be worth it's weight in gold.

If Nexon posted here something like "We have identified a number of players which are exploiting rule #xxx and have suspended their accounts accordingly." Then it would have a good effect in both saying "we're DOING something", and "DON'T exploid bugs as you may get suspended."

Sometimes even a little action is very well worthwhile.

 

[Noisiv]

You cant just delete or ban people's account. But the situation needs to be fixed. What about removing the objects exeeding the limit and refunding the gold/food invested in the objects by mail like the player can take the mail refund and gets a one time food/gold batch. This will square up the game and the players can reinvest it when they are online in other objects.

 

[Whatwhat]

How does that square things up? What about all the time these cheats have raided then people are unable to raid back cos of their invincible defence?

 

[Aussie guy]

Players who use cheats to stay online 24 hours a day, should be deleted from this game. If a player has knowingly exploited a game bug for weeks that gives them extra resources and defences and without reporting this to Nexon they are also cheating. As a non-cheater, I deserve a refund for all the resources I have lost to cheaters. Nexon is responsible as they have failed to act for weeks. I reported cheating issues weeks ago directly to them...and what do you know?....nothing has happened!

 

[Aussie guy]

Totally agree with you Andy. Showing some intent to sort things out would be good. I complained to them directly about a month ago, with screenshots (and politeness!)...and it appears nothing has happened.

 

[bugged87]

neoncity, what about the players who's accounts have been affected by a bug through no fault of their own? Your so-called fix would delete the accounts of even innocent players. Just because you see someone with extra walls or buildings doesn't mean they are cheaters. If a bug introduces extra objects during normal gameplay then how would an honest player remove them to avoid losing all progress as a result of your blanket fix? You've already admitted to not being a developer so stop pretending to be. As an actual software developer myself, I can honestly say based on your rants that you don't have a clue when it comes to the complexities in software design that result in such bugs. You said you appreciated BusyBees post, yet you didn't hear a thing he said. I can tell he gets it, but there's no point in explaining things in more detail to you when your entire concept of software design is simply adding two little numbers. Laugh out loud.

 

[Glen Sheppard]

I disagree nexon rep. You have the wrong people in the job if you cannot write code to produce wall cheaters. It's a simple equation adding in 1 libary book to total books at a level. All systems should hsve BI added in for reporting metrics and reconciliations. I understand you're a customer service rep not in the coding or testing team but don't feed is bull shit. Tell the head of support you need a bi coder and reporting analysis. Just provide the service. Set a matrix for cheating. Eg 5 day ban to proven wall spsmmers. Understanding this game has time and money investment and you have due diligence to customers. Write policy framework, user conditions. Protect your brand but analysis on single input is not customer service. Its shit management and delivery.

 

[Arekville]

He doesn't have to be a software developer to offer an opinion, you git. He's put money into a game, that to the horror of all involved appears to still be in beta, and he expects it to work. Heaven forfend! I happen to be a software developer as well, and if I released something this FUBAR I'd be out on my ass. How Nexon isn't sweating bullets over the prospect of a class action lawsuit is beyond me. If this were anything but a software app, a game, with the money involved, it wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility.

 

[bugged87]

Git? Really? Have you read his posts? He doesn't just offer an opinion. He rants, criticizes, curses, and offers (force feeds, rather) solutions at a level he doesn't understand.

 

[Arekville]

Oh, I forgot, you're the software designer, the dreaded know it all, feared by many, loved by none. The guy's frustrated, he left a comment, then you take a big dump on him. So git? You bet your arse. You started out right - educate - then went off the rails, you smug twit. You can't play nice with others? Go play with yourself.