So, that's the game now?

[Seek]

Doc Holliday and Oddin are correct. Game has gotten too lopsided for Defense. Attackers are giving up everyday, keep quitting or selling accounts and alliances are suffering . LEGO is only viable strategy and that with buying premium TT like stallions and bhm and hangars.
its becoming a terrible game now. Guys that used to get 5* on top D are getting 2* and wasting money on TT In the process . Having only one viable strat is ridiculous and boring , I think fighters and bombers need some buffs too as even these attacks failing constantly with top fighter museum Stats! AH are basically worthless for 3D as has been said above . Need to boost AH, fighters, bombers and transports ( PT havent been buffed with munitions for some reason) or bring back sab and betrayal as Doc has said .

Again it is not game fault. Every base is not going be 5 starred without premium TT nor should it be.

The reason let’s not forget sabotage and betrayal can be countered for a limited time is they are way over powered and make defending impossible without the current counters.
It’s not fun to see all your tower sabotaged and then have what troops do deploy have betrayal hit them as soon as they spawn to destroy the spawning building.

The counters are doing exactly what they should be doing and do not need changed. Make any excuse you want bringing back betrayed and sabotage without counters is simple I WIN for the offense. It would bring days of T1 defenders being wiped in under 2 min and make game pointless truthfully like it was becoming before for defenders

It simple I see players everyday wipe top bases yes most time it takes premium TT but it should be hard to hit T1 auto defender. I WIN every battle under 2 minutes is bad for the game and eventually defenders say hell with it and stop playing.
1 star is a win every star should count in war . Personally time wars are boring

 

[King Crimson]

• LEGO is only viable strategy
• Game is too hard for attackers
• People used to get 5 stars are getting 2 stars
• I want my tactics to be powerful again
• Wasting money on premium tactics
• Fighters and bombers need buffs
• Fighters and bombers are OP
• The manufactory made defense OP

How often have we heard similar boring complaints?

People tend to see only what affects them and would rather instinctively complain than try something first. (well, in most cases). Even posting something positive like "here's how I countered ...." would be a welcome change. If you only do what you've always done, how will you know what else will work? And in case someone says "I've tried it all" - yeah right. With all the variables in the game I doubt it.

I understand it's frustrating when people put so much emphasis on winning and 5starring at all costs but that's their particular choice. I have no particular love for a lot of the decisions made by the devs but after 9yrs I adapt & try new strategies whenever things change. It's a pain in the ass, I know. I think I'm on my 14th or 15th combo right now - or maybe my 20th? And it's working effectively, until the next one.
I'm also still using Sab and Betrayal effectively. In fact it's the only 2 that work the best in battles (for me). How can that possibly be?

I've been attacked with many different combos and no one style has had any more success than another. Maybe that's just my experience with my few accounts but I like to think the manufactory has made my defense (and offense) better - but it's taken many months, as new things usually do. (I refuse to use crowns or buy munitions).

As @Seek said, not every base is going be 5 starred nor should it be. If people choose to pay for premiums, because they want to 5star at all costs - or simply haven't adapted over the years - perhaps it's not the game.
If people haven't figured out by now that the game is constantly changing - and they need to as well - then they never will.

ps: the argument that MP battles are harder is irrelevant (not to mention mostly untrue). Unlike wars, there's no limit to the number of MP battles you can do - so not sure what that argument is for. And with the IRB the argument is even more irrelevant. You raid for rss, instantly retrain, move to the next match. You have a bad attack, instantly retrain, move to the next match. All troops and tactics are there each time instantly. If all you see is the negative in this then so be it.

 

[nobodyknowsthetrouble]

この投稿は取り下げられました

 

[DocHolliday]

• LEGO is only viable strategy
• Game is too hard for attackers
• People used to get 5 stars are getting 2 stars
• I want my tactics to be powerful again
• Wasting money on premium tactics
• Fighters and bombers need buffs
• Fighters and bombers are OP
• The manufactory made defense OP

How often have we heard similar boring complaints?

People tend to see only what affects them and would rather instinctively complain than try something first. (well, in most cases). Even posting something positive like "here's how I countered ...." would be a welcome change. If you only do what you've always done, how will you know what else will work? And in case someone says "I've tried it all" - yeah right. With all the variables in the game I doubt it.

I understand it's frustrating when people put so much emphasis on winning and 5starring at all costs but that's their particular choice. I have no particular love for a lot of the decisions made by the devs but after 9yrs I adapt & try new strategies whenever things change. It's a pain in the ass, I know. I think I'm on my 14th or 15th combo right now - or maybe my 20th? And it's working effectively, until the next one.
I'm also still using Sab and Betrayal effectively. In fact it's the only 2 that work the best in battles (for me). How can that possibly be?

I've been attacked with many different combos and no one style has had any more success than another. Maybe that's just my experience with my few accounts but I like to think the manufactory has made my defense (and offense) better - but it's taken many months, as new things usually do. (I refuse to use crowns or buy munitions).

As @Seek said, not every base is going be 5 starred nor should it be. If people choose to pay for premiums, because they want to 5star at all costs - or simply haven't adapted over the years - perhaps it's not the game.
If people haven't figured out by now that the game is constantly changing - and they need to as well - then they never will.

ps: the argument that MP battles are harder is irrelevant (not to mention mostly untrue). Unlike wars, there's no limit to the number of MP battles you can do - so not sure what that argument is for. And with the IRB the argument is even more irrelevant. You raid for rss, instantly retrain, move to the next match. You have a bad attack, instantly retrain, move to the next match. All troops and tactics are there each time instantly. If all you see is the negative in this then so be

• LEGO is only viable strategy
• Game is too hard for attackers
• People used to get 5 stars are getting 2 stars
• I want my tactics to be powerful again
• Wasting money on premium tactics
• Fighters and bombers need buffs
• Fighters and bombers are OP
• The manufactory made defense OP

How often have we heard similar boring complaints?

People tend to see only what affects them and would rather instinctively complain than try something first. (well, in most cases). Even posting something positive like "here's how I countered ...." would be a welcome change. If you only do what you've always done, how will you know what else will work? And in case someone says "I've tried it all" - yeah right. With all the variables in the game I doubt it.

I understand it's frustrating when people put so much emphasis on winning and 5starring at all costs but that's their particular choice. I have no particular love for a lot of the decisions made by the devs but after 9yrs I adapt & try new strategies whenever things change. It's a pain in the ass, I know. I think I'm on my 14th or 15th combo right now - or maybe my 20th? And it's working effectively, until the next one.
I'm also still using Sab and Betrayal effectively. In fact it's the only 2 that work the best in battles (for me). How can that possibly be?

I've been attacked with many different combos and no one style has had any more success than another. Maybe that's just my experience with my few accounts but I like to think the manufactory has made my defense (and offense) better - but it's taken many months, as new things usually do. (I refuse to use crowns or buy munitions).

As @Seek said, not every base is going be 5 starred nor should it be. If people choose to pay for premiums, because they want to 5star at all costs - or simply haven't adapted over the years - perhaps it's not the game.
If people haven't figured out by now that the game is constantly changing - and they need to as well - then they never will.

ps: the argument that MP battles are harder is irrelevant (not to mention mostly untrue). Unlike wars, there's no limit to the number of MP battles you can do - so not sure what that argument is for. And with the IRB the argument is even more irrelevant. You raid for rss, instantly retrain, move to the next match. You have a bad attack, instantly retrain, move to the next match. All troops and tactics are there each time instantly. If all you see is the negative in this then so be it.

1: Yeah, its true. Suddenly Lego is almost the only viable ground combo now . ( I am not a Lego player anymore, trying new combos because i am bored so much…!)
I stopped playing with them several months ago.
and honestly I'm one of the first players who played with Lego since April '22 and I called them "lego" lol, it's true! But it became very boring because now half the planet plays with them.

2: i am not said ever that game is so hard for attackers

3: its great that wars now lasts on stars not on time anymore.

4: yeah! I don't care if they buff defense further, but hell yeah i want to have the option to use my war tactics whenever i need them !
Maybe you still using sabotage ( but meh, still ppl playing with assault vehicles and cavalry so...)

5: Personally im not spending on TTs and buildings so i can't say anything about that.

6: i am horrible air attacker so I can't comment on whether the planes need anything or not.

7: definitely. Manufactory so far boost defense more than offense. but that's not bad. was needed.


the problem is that when, for example, we had an apparently OP sabotage with a 30" duration and we had to adjust it, it could for example become 15" and affect only one building, not a group of buildings.

instead what happened? they made a new building with a new feature that simply forbids you to use it.

and if you think it's still usable and you're doing just fine, check the vast majority of battles in wars against strong alliances and you'll see that most players don't even use a sabotage anymore!

what I want to say in a few words: when our hand hurts, we don't need to cut it off so it doesn't hurt anymore, there are other solutions...

 

[King Crimson]

and can therefore still make good use of betrayal.

Actually my most active account is my Auto Age account - my next best account is a few lvls short of Info Age so I have no idea what domistats is showing you.
Anyway, as you've rightly pointed out "only level 10 makes you immune to betrayal" so thank you for making my point. Much appreciated.
Also, as Auto Age I also attack other Auto bases - some of them have the immunity and some don't. Either way, betrayal is still able to be used. The whole notion that, because some bases now have the immunity - for a lousy 10secs I might add! - is lame. But that's my opinion.

The game has a clear favorite: Mortar. I have several accounts at a very similar level and upgrade status, so I have a good comparison because I can attack the same opponents several times. Accounts with really good museums for heavy tanks still achieve fewer stars than accounts that have no bonus for mortars apart from coalitions. This is not a single outlier but can be proven repeatedly over weeks in many wars.

The only reason mortars are a clear favourite is because of lazy people, imo. Mortars are overrated and a well designed base with good spawning defenders (like mine) destroys a mortar army - silo or not. Very rarely does a mortar army get more than 2-3 stars - and I have my rss and TC exposed.
However, I haven't attacked every single base with mortars and every single player with mortars hasn't attacked me. Mortars might be good with the right player AND the right boosts but from my defense log I don't see the evidence - so I can't give them the same respect as you.

 

[DocHolliday]

Actually my most active account is my Auto Age account - my next best account is a few lvls short of Info Age so I have no idea what domistats is showing you.
Anyway, as you've rightly pointed out "only level 10 makes you immune to betrayal" so thank you for making my point. Much appreciated.
Also, as Auto Age I also attack other Auto bases - some of them have the immunity and some don't. Either way, betrayal is still able to be used. The whole notion that, because some bases now have the immunity - for a lousy 10secs I might add! - is lame. But that's my opinion.


The only reason mortars are a clear favourite is because of lazy people, imo. Mortars are overrated and a well designed base with good spawning defenders (like mine) destroys a mortar army - silo or not. Very rarely does a mortar army get more than 2-3 stars - and I have my rss and TC exposed.
However, I haven't attacked every single base with mortars and every single player with mortars hasn't attacked me. Mortars might be good with the right player AND the right boosts but from my defense log I don't see the evidence - so I can't give them the same respect as you.

You mean in MP battles?
Mortars without Mongol coalition are Very weak so MP battles are not representative

 

[King Crimson]

Suddenly Lego is almost the only viable ground combo now
Maybe for you or the people that attack you. I've tried it and it's no more or less effective than the combo I'm using right now across 4 accounts - and I'm having a hell of a lot more fun with my variety. But that's just me.

we had an apparently OP sabotage with a 30" duration
So you want to go back to that simple set-and-forget option? That would be boring.

players don't even use a sabotage anymore
Good for them - I'll use what works for me.

they made a new building with a new feature that simply forbids you to use it
Really? In every single match? Against every single opponent? For the entire attack?? Don't you think you're overstating things a little? Troops are immune for 10 secs - surely you have other options to combat these troops? Speaking of which ...

we don't need to cut it off so it doesn't hurt anymore, there are other solutions...
Glad you agree with me - but I think you're better off finding your own solutions rather than wait for the devs.

 

[DocHolliday]

W

Suddenly Lego is almost the only viable ground combo now
Maybe for you or the people that attack you. I've tried it and it's no more or less effective than the combo I'm using right now across 4 accounts - and I'm having a hell of a lot more fun with my variety. But that's just me.

we had an apparently OP sabotage with a 30" duration
So you want to go back to that simple set-and-forget option? That would be boring.

players don't even use a sabotage anymore
Good for them - I'll use what works for me.

they made a new building with a new feature that simply forbids you to use it
Really? In every single match? Against every single opponent? For the entire attack?? Don't you think you're overstating things a little? Troops are immune for 10 secs - surely you have other options to combat these troops? Speaking of which ...

we don't need to cut it off so it doesn't hurt anymore, there are other solutions...
Glad you agree with me - but I think you're better off finding your own solutions rather than wait for the devs.

We talking about war battles right?

About sabotage if they set it correctly it will be NOT set and forget tactic.

•Yeah, really. You want many see sabotage users anymore. Especially in high competitive wars.

 

[King Crimson]

You mean in MP battles?

Yes (well mostly). I was responding to your previous comment:
Also the game is not only about wars . MP battles become so hard due to those unusable war tactics and the enormous amount of DST from non-museum sources.

 

[DocHolliday]

Yes (well mostly). I was responding to your previous comment:
Also the game is not only about wars . MP battles become so hard due to those unusable war tactics and the enormous amount of DST from non-museum sources.

Ok got it. About mortars/ lego are very weak in MP because of missing coalition ( Mongols)

 

[DocHolliday]

Suddenly Lego is almost the only viable ground combo now
Maybe for you or the people that attack you. I've tried it and it's no more or less effective than the combo I'm using right now across 4 accounts - and I'm having a hell of a lot more fun with my variety. But that's just me.

we had an apparently OP sabotage with a 30" duration
So you want to go back to that simple set-and-forget option? That would be boring.

players don't even use a sabotage anymore
Good for them - I'll use what works for me.

they made a new building with a new feature that simply forbids you to use it
Really? In every single match? Against every single opponent? For the entire attack?? Don't you think you're overstating things a little? Troops are immune for 10 secs - surely you have other options to combat these troops? Speaking of which ...

we don't need to cut it off so it doesn't hurt anymore, there are other solutions...
Glad you agree with me - but I think you're better off finding your own solutions rather than wait for the devs.

Btw, what's the name of your alliance? I would like to visit

 

[King Crimson]

Btw, what's the name of your alliance? I would like to visit

Wanna try your Lego on me? Bring it ...
By the way, I don't have betrayal immunity yet - maybe later I might.

 

[DocHolliday]

Wanna try your Lego on me? Bring it ...
By the way, I don't have betrayal immunity yet - maybe later I might.

No i am not a lego player anymore lol

 

[Vapula]

Some good discussions here, so I'll just add mine
Its not the defense being OP or offense being weak the game is quite balanced as in where both defense and offense have a say in world wars; it is the lack of f2p strategies that is the biggest problem..
Throughout history when cz were meta you could still run HTs (Although every top alliance back then used ht/ike combo that's top 10s that's beside the point I'm talking about the vast majolity), when they killed cz with tubman and info redoubts they made AHs op and then nerfed them till they comfortably become a part of the meta, when they killed HTs with the state of defense library they brought mortars into the limelight but that's when everything went downhill because instead of nerfing mortars so that they could settle comfortably in the meta they decided to switch things up and started boosting defense and now they've overcompensated defense to a point where every other strategy has died but still mortars are no where near dead

Let's do a fun 2 day event where we match top 30 teams with each other and the only handicap they all get is they cannot use mongols, everything else is a fair game. How many teams would full house each other? My bet 0.. Even if it's rank 1 team vs rank 30 even in that match Ranked 1 team will drop a couple stars.. So even in such a highly p2w environment (I'd assume the revenue from they get from the remaining alliances combined would be somewhere in the same magnitude as just the top 30 alliances combined) removing just one coal makes offense impossible that just shows what the true problem factor was to begin with.. In an ideal world 3D base with 0 offensive boosts should be able to take down a 3O base with 0 Defensive boosts without the need to burn premiums on it, which is totally not the case anymore for a 3D to take down a 3O you need to rely on recon TTs, Bhms and Tupos else you'd fall short.. That also makes defenders want to quit, like someone said this to me before "OP offense makes defenders quit but OP defense makes both attackers and defenders quit"..

Do I want them to nerf defense again? Absolutely not it has gotten a much needed time to shine let it have it's moment but do I want changes? Absolutely yes!

Heres some suggestions that could be experimented with
- I really liked @oddin 's idea: sabotage was already nerfed from 30-40 odd seconds to 10ish, Counter intelligence was an overkill.. maybe Sabo could be used on 1 building only, when counter intelligence is used

- nerf protect: The usage of protect bloomed once betrays and Sabos were made useless especially on high adtd bases, so it's gonna hurt both D and O but honestly the biggest reason other strategies died was because of the protected defenders, no strategy has enough dmg output to deal with the nearly invincible protected HTs even mortars struggle so a nerf to protect duration isn't a bad idea, it might also give the leonidas committee a bit more value where if an attacker wants to have longer protect they need to use it and give attack strategies like AHs or even HTs a fighting chance.. Because let's be real why did fighters suddenly became the meta in top alliances? Because no ground troops except mortars work even those require precise planning, timing, execution AND a good bit of luck to walk away with 5*, even with like ridiculous 170 edsts defenders can cap you out thanks to council and manufactory. And because you used equipment for hermitage your mortars don't have the same power either..

- Buildings like catapults have two radii one white, one red, why can't defender spawners have the same? The idea is as long as the troop is inside the red circle they cannot be betrayed but as soon as they are out they can be betrayed. This will stop the mindless betray ht as soon as it spawns to destroy the bunker strategy and attackers will have to be technically sound to know when the troop in out of red circle but still give some utility to betray because as it is 10 seconds in a lot of time.. Most attacks are barrack troop attacks which have very low HP so around the 1:30-1:40 mark 1 of two things happen
a) Your troops have destroyed enough D buildings that now it's cruise control and you will be mostly cleaning up stray buildings the next minute or
b) The defenders have outpowered your troops and now you have 2 mortars remaining who are shooting at an invincible ht heading their way to their impending doom..
So 10% of the battle time being unbetrayable is quite significant!

 

[Seek]

The facts are sabotage is over powered same with betrayal hence the counters. They still work and sabotage is used quit frequently in top wars.

How you ask well they attack with air where they can till sabotage works on towers they need them too or until they destroy drone command.

Offense will see the full munitions potential, because they only use few types they have upgraded not full arsenal and use other combos and your forgetting the main reason mortarseige is because of seasonals remove the stupid seasonal boast and nerfs allow players to actually configure different set ups on even grounds and they will see that apc mrl combo works real well same with AH and fighter and bomber. Problem is seasonal boost and nerfs. Nobody has clue what will work long term cause of seasonal

Defense players maxing all the defense munitions for units and towers before moving to offensive is another reason. Most offensive players did the munitions they use for hits and didn’t do all their units before
moving on to defense towers and units. Finish all the O units munitions and you will see full potentials for all units.

As far as the comments of what alliance I am in well bud I am in the Misfit family come visit anytime if your T1. As for not spending on TT then don’t complain when you can’t take out a maxed out bases like mine .

 

[nobodyknowsthetrouble]

この投稿は取り下げられました

 

[Seek]

This thread is just about crying about sabotage and betrayal being countered and players failure to adapt.

How unfair will it be for the other side of coin? When top defenders see their bases being walked into because of the unfair advantage Betrayal and Sabotage would present if not counter from drone or munitions. It would be 100% win everytime for the attacking players and all defensive would be pointless.

Top sabotage + 50% duration or more with counsel shut down half to all the tower on ur base to allow weak attackers to feel good about being able to 5 star a base with over half the defense shut down for over half the battle. This should not happen or be allowed. Get stronger and use better tactics simple. Stop askingfor a cheat to win. That is what removing the counters would equal too.

Betrayal unrestricted with bonus of more units hit troop spawning building soon as the spawn destroys the spawning building.

Betrayal and Sabotage were put in check to make things fair.

Saying your madd cause you have to wait to use sabotage and betrayal whenever you want is not a valid reason for it to happen. The facts are the counters were put in cause sabotage and betrayal were allowing attackers to simply 5 star every base.

My weak player statement is directed in general not any person.

Again I say stop all seasonal boost or nerfs. It’s a big part of players failing to adapt

 

[King Crimson]

1 of two things happen
a) Your troops have destroyed enough D buildings that now it's cruise control and you will be mostly cleaning up stray buildings the next minute or
b) The defenders have outpowered your troops and now you have 2 mortars remaining who are shooting at an invincible ht heading their way to their impending doom..

Yes 1 of 2 things happen as in the case of every war: you'll win or you'll lose. Can't always win.

 

[King Crimson]

Could we get an option before a battle to specify which troops we don't want under any circumstances? Then I would deactivate infantry, raiders and small tanks,
I don't know ... I mean, how complicated do we want to make this game?

The attackers start to fight the heavy tank. If I then use betrayal, it changes sides with just a few hit points. This problem could be solved by giving the traitor 80% of the max HP instead of 80% of the current HP. (I'd vote for this)
How far do we go with the counters for counters though?? Do we end up with counters for the counters that counter the counters???
FYI, I'm not asking for no benefits - I just don't see the argument that it can't be used because it, now, needs to be used with some thought.

The navigation bar is frustrating and far too long.
This would not only solve a lot of the problems but would be a great - and long overdue - QOL change. @Harlems369th

 

[King Crimson]

Again I say stop all seasonal boost or nerfs. It’s a big part of players failing to adapt

I'm happy with the seasons - it's nice to experiment with different metas to keep things interesting but it should be maybe 1 month on, 1 month off so we can go back to our comfort zones regularly.