“The Road to Better World War Matchmaking” aka Sandbagging!

Spaceboy

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aaarrrggg...because we got some very new, junior players (iron-classical) in our team who are developing & attacking, we are gaining resp. 19 & 41 glory points !! Before the change it was at least 100-200. At least we have the loot if we win a war, but this is not enough for our top players..

So now we are punished because we have low level players (we have no globals).

How is the glory win/loss now computed ?

The new glory system is very discouraging now...
 

S_How

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aaarrrggg...because we got some very new, junior players (iron-classical) in our team who are developing & attacking, we are gaining resp. 19 & 41 glory points !! Before the change it was at least 100-200. At least we have the loot if we win a war, but this is not enough for our top players..

So now we are punished because we have low level players (we have no globals).

How is the glory win/loss now computed ?

The new glory system is very discouraging now...

Id have to ask, what is your age composition going into war, if you think this made it more discouraging for normal teams lol. I ask this because in our last two wars since we believe there was a change, we faced:

1) WAR - they had ~25 Global/Atomic and ~15 Iron age, and stood to gain 8 glory by beating us which is probably appropriate punishment for such a strategy. (we stalemated)

2) Force Of Korea - they had 34 Global/Atomic and 6 Iron age (was funny seeing 34 being near max global and 35 being iron age lol), and they stood to gain 150 glory for beating us and they are a top 20 glory team, almost no punishment at all, and I feel it should be much more severe - because even this 15% sandbag created a horrible mismatch.

I guess it doesnt matter, because sandbagging and stalemates in general have ruined war, and there is nothing being done about it. I just find it hard to understand how this change negatively impacts anyone who isnt intentionally sandbagging.
 

S_How

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Hi all!

After reviewing the post, it's inline with what has already been posted on our forums. There is nothing new information wise that I saw.

Im not following what this is referring to. Are you stating that changes were implemented? All we can see is a bad translation from other domination pages. Can you tell us what is going on and what is planned?
 

Fable

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I dont c any changes imo, only more troops for sale. If they did do something to WW has it been posted?
 

Spaceboy

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ok got your point. We didn't got those low level players in the past. For a strange reason, we were posted alliance no 1 in the search so we got 10 new players in 1h. We kept them, but now we are gaining much less Glory points. Our goal is not sandbagging as we have very strong attackers. But I do not really agree with the glory punishment...do we need to get rid of the low level players ? Doesn't seem nice to me...
 

S_How

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Yes I do understand what youre saying. I think though, if a player is active, they will only be these ages for a matter of days before they can at least be medieval/gunpowder, and maybe this is just a temporary thing. To me, this is a small sacrifice for a very unique situation you are in if it helps get rid of sandbagging, which has completely ruined war for most teams.
 

jmemira

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I think glory wins still also considers the amount of glory of the alliances you are facing, if you are facing and alliance with less glory you will gain less for a win than if you beat an alliance with more glory than you. Because you have a lower average score with the new alliance members you might be facing teams with less glory so less of a gain
 

Chadwicke

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No change and as for what to do with low levels two choices don't put them in war but give then the best troops have them do the alliance gate,theh Will grow fast. Second opinion is take a coleader and make a second farm alliance plyers fight in war there then when they grow move them back up to the big team . It's simple
 

ColdestRage

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Even if this Glory changes are made do you all think it will change the outcome of leaderboards?
Or end sandbagging?
Nope, it won't
More than half alliances on leaderboards use sandbagging , and they still will use it.
So what , that Dankness, Rus Army or Korea Army will gain 8 Glory if won , and alliance that doesn't sandbag will be able to gain 3000000000 Glory when they DON'T have even a slight chance at WINNING?
8 Glory is still better than none .
Sandbaggers win no matter the Glory ammount they recieve.
That ain't a fix.
Once your Glory is high enough for your alliance to be near 100th place in leaderboards you meet Sandbaggers , and you'll be meeting mostly them.
That means you won't ever advance to leaderboards full of Sandbaggers.
And Sandbaggers will stay at leaderboards even if they'll gain only 1 Glory for winning against non-sandbagging alliance
 
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Nb4powerup

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Hey everyone. We've improved how we calculate Glory in World War. The Age of the players in a War has always modified the amount of Glory won or lost, and with this update those modifiers have been changed.

The end result is that Alliances who sandbag (bring several low Age players to War) will now be earning substantially less Glory from victory. Likewise, if your Alliance loses to a sandbagging Alliance, you will lose a lot less Glory than before. In the long run, this means sandbagging Alliances will no longer be at the top of the leaderboard.

As mentioned in a previous post, we will continue to monitor this problem. We will look to make additional changes as necessary, such as potentially changing how Alliances are matched with one another. Thanks.
 
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S_How

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Hey everyone. We've improved how we calculate Glory in World War. The Age of the players in a War has always modified the amount of Glory won or lost, and with this update those modifiers have been changed.

The end result is that Alliances who sandbag (bring several low Age players to War) will now be earning substantially less Glory from victory. Likewise, if your Alliance loses to a sandbagging Alliance, you will lose a lot less Glory than before. In the long run, this means sandbagging Alliances will no longer be at the top of the leaderboard.

As mentioned in a previous post, we will continue to monitor this problem. We will look to make additional changes as necessary, such as potentially changing how Alliances are matched with one another. Thanks.

Please tell me this is just one of many changes, and that others are already in the works. You are right in that glory has changed a bit. But, our last two wars we are facing very stacked teams (Force of Korea and Voodoo Nation), and they are both still able to earn 100-150 glory off of us despite mega mismatches. Force of Korea is top 20, and Voodoo Nation has >20k glory.....so 100-150 glory is not too bad for them (I think we have like 19k now). These are both examples of teams who would not be ranked at all probably if it werent for sandbagging, they are not forced, they just do it for easy matches, and the amount of glory they can win is still decent. This will not change the way they behave. They can either face stronger teams close to their level that they cannot beat, or they can get nearly 100% wins by forcing mismatches and get 100-200 glory at a time for a ~15-20% sandbag.

For your top tier teams (like 1D, UA, KA, GP, etc), they can go full weight but it means infinite wait times, and an almost guaranteed stalemate. Why would they ever choose to not sandbag if their goal is to remain high on the leaderboard, even if a sandbag only gives them ~100 glory. Its better than 0 thats for sure.

The one small good part of this change is you are right, we lose a little less....but the problem is it still rewards teams for sandbagging more than it rewards teams for not. I actually saw it work really well when we matched W.A.R., who had a 40% sandbag and only could gain 8 glory by beating us (we didnt let them have it tho!). But, a 15-20% sandbag is the most common use, and the glory has not changed enough that it discourages it, and that 15% sandbag is enough to completely destroy the matchmaking algorithm. (For context we have never used sandbags)

I do not mean to be offensive, because I actually believe these things are very out of your control, and I appreciate you coming to the forums despite the fact that the community has turned almost entirely toxic due to Nexon's lack of communication and action on a variety of topics. But, "we continue to monitor this problem and will make additional changes" is just crazy to say. Its been the hottest topic ever on your forums. It causes an absolutely miserable in game experience. Teams are crumbling left and right. And nothing material has been done in 5 months. And whoever thinks that sandbagging alliances wont be at the top of the leaderboard simply doesnt play in a top 100 glory team, or is completely oblivious to the current state of the game, it is the only possible explanation for that thought.

Please fix stalemates, fix the troop card garbage happening, and make punishments for sandbagging way harsher than they currently are.
 

Radzeer

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Hey everyone. We've improved how we calculate Glory in World War. The Age of the players in a War has always modified the amount of Glory won or lost, and with this update those modifiers have been changed.

The end result is that Alliances who sandbag (bring several low Age players to War) will now be earning substantially less Glory from victory. Likewise, if your Alliance loses to a sandbagging Alliance, you will lose a lot less Glory than before. In the long run, this means sandbagging Alliances will no longer be at the top of the leaderboard.

As mentioned in a previous post, we will continue to monitor this problem. We will look to make additional changes as necessary, such as potentially changing how Alliances are matched with one another. Thanks.
Nb4powerup: Can you pls recheck? Apparently either NEXON at it's best programming again or it's a blatant lie. We are facing the 6th sandbaggers in a row, Dutch Warlords this time in a 20vs20 war. They are at 19k glory points, while we at 17k, Still they gain 200 glory in case they win (which they will do inevitably, as we dont have the firepower to overcome the XP disadvantage (Top 18 average level difference 25 XP levels). We used to see the same Glory at stake in the past by similar glory points differences.

In case the fix would be developed and would be working (which I doubt, pretty much - as sandbagging with extra army offers must be generating huge money for the company), it will change nothing. For 99% of the alliances glory means nothing, but the wins do.

Im just curious, how much this substantially less glory would mean if two sandbags meet. Please don't tell me that, that full glory points will be given then. Lol, why do we bother...
 
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Radzeer

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Btw, the simplest solution for both sandbagging and stalemates is to introduce a tiebraker - in case of a draw (stalemate by the current rules) the alliance with the higher level of the lowest ranked player wins. In case it is too difficult to explain to the developer team, use an example:

Take any 30vs30 war which ended in stalemate.
Compare the lowest level member (#30) on both sides.
The one which is higher in XP belongs to which alliance?
Name that alliance as the winner.
The other alliance must be the loser.
 

Tijsie

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@Radzeer.
It's 124 Glory points not 200..
And read our sandbaggers names please. We hate to do so, to use them but it was necessary.
Why? Because we only did get a match once a week after Atomic Age!
Do you like to wait that long for a match?
I say, nobody likes that. We just want to play, you see.
 
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S_How

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I will actually commend DW. We watched most top advancement teams move to sandbags so quickly, but DW held out for a really long time. I believe you dont want to use them at all, and the system is forcing you to.

I will just say since you asked the question, they would probably not like to wait that long for a match either....but they would probably rather wait that long for a match than be matched with a team where winning was decided before the match even started due to sandbagging. This is the dilemma, it is very bad for both sides.
 

Radzeer

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Tijsie: remembered 204 glory points, maybe it was changed in the meantime (asked CS about the fix). still the same amount as it would be without your sandbag accounts, Im sure.

First you crown your accounts into AA and then all surprised, that you have no opponents. Not all are as wealthy as you, mate.
Then crying out loud - no opponents, we need to sandbag. Classy as hell. Well the best ones are always alone, you are not the best one for sure.
I would say clasless, win at all costs attitude, selfish, dishonest and unfair.
And you do not even say sorry.
Do you realize, that you are destroying the enjoyment of ohers at all? Probably not, as you never had one. Slaying babies, that is what the Dutch Warloards doing these days. Unless they meet an other classy sandbagger.
 

Tijsie

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Man, your hostile.

Since we have used sandbaggers you’re the first significantly weaker . We finally have matches with the alliances we should have been matching with.(and all are stalemates) I’m totally not a fan of rushing to AA and about all the crowns being used for that purpose.

About the rushing. If I look at the bases on your side, some have rushed to AA …. This could also be a part of you guys matching with us. If you play a lot of 20x20 there is a small chance of meeting again because we mostly play with more players. Mostly 30x30.

There will always be matches which seems to be unfairly matched. Also with a new system.
 

Sav Lav

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We have had several wars recently in 25 vs 25 matchups where we are facing off against 14 Atomic Age players and 11 Enlightenment and our matchups are +8 or -860 Glory. We have Atomic, Global, Industrial, Enlightenment and Iron Age players on our team. It would take us 9 months to recoup one wars loss in Glory!!!! LOL
 

S_How

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We have Atomic, Global, Industrial, Enlightenment and Iron Age players on our team. It would take us 9 months to recoup one wars loss in Glory!!!! LOL

Lol, tbh sounds like its working correctly. Why do you have iron age players with mixed with only high ages? It just doesnt happen naturally, at least for any sort of extended time. Maybe I am missing the scenario where this happens organically.
 
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