“The Road to Better World War Matchmaking” aka Sandbagging!

S_How

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Another war, another sandbag. Our average level is 160, theirs is 159. According to BHG matchmaking this is about as awesomely perfect as it gets. However, remove their 3 sandbags and their average level is 180. Even though they arent insurmountable, the swing in odds with a 20 level average advantage over your opponent is massive. And this is one of the more fair matches we've had in the last month, a best case scenario. Even a minuscule 3 player (12%) sandbag, is gamebreaking in nature to BHG's matchmaking algorithm.

Except for about the top 5 teams in the game, the only way to reliably and consistently win wars is to load your roster up with undeveloped accounts that ensure that you've got a non-competitive match. The undeveloped accounts are not part of a 'diverse team', they almost never make hits and even if they did, they exist solely to manipulate the matchmaking algorithm. In every other game Ive played, filling your roster to the max with active, talented players in your level range is the way to be successful. In Dominations, it actually hurts your team.

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jmemira

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Well said, still waiting on literally ~any~ changes/updates to this.
 

Technocrat

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This is even more frustrating since I stayed up late to try to match with ProdigalThieves, only to have them immediately match their sandbaggers and us match our own. I'm at a loss as to what to do, short of giving up the game.
 

Jakob_888

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Since the update we have almost only matched with other top 50 teams from the leaderboard. That is great! Maybe we just been lucky with awesome glory but im starting to wonder if the matchmaking have been changed so you mostly match with teams with the same amount of glory.
Maybe it is factor now?
If it is not, I hope Nexon put it in as a factor in the matchmaking😊
 

S_How

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I think it is just luck, and that you have a similar average war weight as most top 50 teams.

We have also been matched almost only with top 50 teams in the last month, and we are no where near top 50, and we are on average 20-40 levels lower than every one of our opponents in these cases, horrible mismatches. Matchmaking and sandbagging is worse now than it ever has been from our perspective.
 

Jakob_888

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There are certainly many different perspectives on the game and matchmaking 😊
There are certainly also really many aspects of this strategy game.

Almost all leaders consider the composition of their team's war roster - it is a very vital part of war strategy. You can use the formation that better suits your alliance and give you a better chance of a win.
If a leader just take everyone who is availeble (without considering attacking skills, roster composition, base designs) you need luck to get a match you can win.

A team doesnt deserve more or less to be high on leaderboard because they use one strategy or another strategy.
As long as you dont cheat and use hacks or exploids or fix matchups, Im okay with it. If you do cheat... Im really happy how hard Nexon is on cheaters now! 😁
I also think it is a good thing Nexon stopped the teams using ridicously many low levels and get big glory. But noone should call them cheaters. They got maximum out of their potential at a time where they could.

When I say a team is skilled I think of the players ability to 5 star heavy targets, the teamwork, great base designs, the leadership's roster composition and war plans - and the teams execution of it. The hole pack!
When my team is defeated (or stalemated) - I try not blame anyone but change aspects of our strategy and look how I can do better.
When Nexon change the game I try likewise to adapt as fast a possible to the new game.
 

Krieg

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Agree with you, Jakob. This is a strategy game. Roster composition is a huge part of the team's strategy. You can argue that some kind of strategy allows teams with less battle skills to win a WW. But, you have to acknowledge they are showing strategic skills.
In other way, I also recognize that teams or players not satisfied with the rules have the right to pressure Nexon to change this rules.
Don't think those called sandbaggers are cheaters. But I understand how frustrating this can be for teams that don't want to go this way. We have to find a solution that allow tô most of all enjoy the game and the wars.
 

S_How

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Jakob, lets be realistic. You can make statements about careful consideration of team composition all day long. For 90%+ of the teams in the top 100, all this 'careful consideration' means is how many iron ages will it take to make sure their match is not competitive.

I will give you this - your team is amazing, some of the best planning and skill in the entire game. I never for a moment think 1D would aim for non competitive matches. You are an exception though, with maybe another 5-10 teams that are already ranked very high where you belong. Because none of the teams in your peer group go in full weight, you are forced to do things that lower your weight to even get a match. Because you, GP, KA, Encore, UA and a few other teams are SO good....the other teams around or just below you in weight drop their war weight by 20-50 levels by sandbagging, instead of having to face you. They dont want to face teams like yours, there is an easy way out, and it is rewarded more than any other strategy in the game. Instead, they match with teams like mine.

On our team, we put a ton of thought of who to put in our lineup, our war strategies, etc. We run 25-35 person wars with a 49-50 active person roster. We assign targets, preplan attacks, record hits, share intel, have a very strategic upgrade strategy, try very hard to have good base designs, communicate very effectively, etc. Before glory and sandbagging, this led us to be very successful. Now, none of this matters. Because we decide not to use iron/classical undeveloped accounts to artificially lower our weight, but instead take our real, developed top 25-35 skilled players....it actually hurts us more than helps. All of the planning, design, intel, strategy you mentioned....it simply does not matter when your opponent is 40 levels higher on average than you after removing their sandbags. In some of the matches I posted above, we were able to clear every one of their difficult 210+ bases....but we would lose because we just didnt have enough offensive coverage to cover SO many high level bases - these teams, no matter how good or bad or what strategy they had, had manipulated the matchup by more than we could overcome. You could take the worst atomic heavy team, and they will handily beat the best emerging teams without breaking a sweat by doing this. And they are rewarded for it.

We could adapt to this strategy and use it ourselves, we discussed many times doing this. It is tempting, let me tell you. But, there is nothing forcing us to sandbag, we can get matched going in full strength. We would only do it to get matches that were decided before planning day started and we took advantage of lower level teams. We would have to hold out some of our great attackers and active players in order to sub in inactive or alts created just to manipulate matches. We would have to remove players from our alliance to make room for these inactive undeveloped accounts, which would make it a less fun atmosphere, etc. And we hold out hoping some action will be taken to improve the situation. Many of us are looking for the AMA tomorrow to make our final choices on whether to stick with the game or not.

I truly hope that they have a plan that will both reward the best heavyweights for going in and battling their peers, and prevent the non competitive nature of most wars in the middleweight and lighter weight groups that has been ruined by sandbagging.

I recognize its a choice, but many people feel that in a game in which the absolute best strategy is to load your team up with undeveloped, alt or inactive accounts, in order to get non competitive matches or avoid your peers....is not good. And its not the teams that should have to adapt to work around this, it is the game and developers which must adapt to drive true competition and a more fair player experience.
 
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DynoBot

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Can we see Progical Thieves bottom 4 players in the last two wars posted. Was your Lv. 24,75,85, and 95 included? For the sake of clarity.
 

S_How

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The 24 has never warred with us, he is a family member of another member. If they stick with the game we wont put them in until they are much more capable. The 75 and 85 who are both mid EA, have been in wars with us, both were not included until they were EA since they get no benefit/experience hitting all iron age bases, or global/aa bases which are pretty much their only choices. The 95 is new and has never warred with us but is nearly industrial. These are the only non IA/Global/AA players we have. I dont have the screenshots of the prior wars, sorry.

However, I did the math on it for curiosity. Having both of those players as our two low (they are the only ones below IA occasionally on our war roster) reduced our average level by 4 in a 30 person war. Probably pretty normal, and doesnt change matches. The two examples at the top of this page, going directly from Atomic to Iron age at the bottom of the roster, dropped average levels by about 30-35. To me at least, there is a clear distinction in many ways between these cases.
 

GailWho

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Very well said S_How Thank you for representing the fair play middle/lower weight alliances out there like you do. We really appreciate it.
 

DynoBot

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You are basing that on player level as opposed to player war ranking. Teams are matched by war ranking, so you really don't know the effect it has on war search criteria. Just to point that out.
 

S_How

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Yes, I actually agree and get what you are saying. If you look at their bases specifically though, they are very normally developed for their age, and honestly level is all we have to go on....its far from a perfect guide, but it does give a reasonable view (in my opinion).
 

Prodigal Clint

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Perhaps you would like to join us for a war or two to see things from our perspective, or you can simply ask the player who visited us from your team for a week. I'm sure your perspective may alter having first hand experience what we r talking about. Simply put, sandbagging matters zero for u, because you have no chance of Ever meeting a mismatch like we experience every. single, war.

I appreciate you have your own perspective on this issue, but simply put, your team is in the .001% of the majority. It's really not indicative of what the greater community is experiencing.
 
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Jakob_888

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Thank you for the nice words about our team - it is much appreciated😊
The same things I can say about you own team.👍

I disagree with you when you apply that many of the alliances on the leaderboard are no good. I will actually say the exact opposite - they are ALL skilled😊
You can simply not get that amount of glory from wars and be a bad team. Dont get me wrong - there are also A LOT of skilled teams outside the leaderboard.
Im sure every single team on and off the leaderboard are fighting their hearts out.
 

JuDomines

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If I do only upgrades from university because it does not bring my level up and lead opponent to sometimes underestimate my base, do you guys think I'm cheating/sandbagging/whatever you call it? Remember, I do that on purpose. Keeping my level virtually low. Is it against the the rules?
 

Vixen

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No.. totally legit line of play.. You are doing that to increase your strength and I admire those who are well into uni... I would like to think it was taken into account in war matching. "Sandbagging" is often about getting an easier opponent in war.. not about increasing individual or team strength
 

Silentmajority

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Thank you Jakob for standing up for the silent majority who recognise dominations is a strategy game.

Most of us just want to have fun and win wars. We follow and trust our leaders to choose the right combination of players from all ages in war so we all have fun, be challenged, learn and win against any team we are matched!
 
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