Alternatives to Pay to Win?

Tsamu

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After an interesting discussion with LordJestix I have been persuaded that pay to win (P2W) is a serious problem. That and the fact that our last 6 wars have been against blatantly P2W alliances ;)

So what are other ways for Nexon to generate income? I don't play Clash of Clans, but I hear they are much more pay to advance, so you buy upgrades to your base and troops rather than buy single use troop cards, or overpowered buildings (*bazooka tower*).

What's your opinion? What would you be willing to pay for other than P2W elements? For example, I would pay 100 crowns to rename my base. I might even buy a second estate if it were offered.

Also, would you buy the special offers (e.g. 3 chapters of library research and a troop upgrade) if they were cheaper? By my calculations they cost the same as buying the crowns and instant researching/upgrading the individual elements. If it was a 25% or 30% discount I would be tempted.
 

Kam1983

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In CoC, you can pay as mush you like to advance in multiplayer mode. It s like Dominations. you can rush your buildings, you can buy resources. I myself don't have an issue with that. (Not to mention that both Dominations and CoC suffer from sandbagging).

The difference is reflected in wars. In CoC, you can't pay to win the wars. You can't buy an OP troop or building to win your wars. In dominations, one can buy 4 freaking elephants to use them in Strongholds. Besides, you can have the maximum numbers of workers in CoC without spending a single cent, while one needs to pay to have the workers. There is no alternative here. -_-
 

takzilla

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Some of the buildings/troops are seriously overpowered. If Nexon is not going to eliminate pay to win, atleast they should nerf troops like elephant archers and buildings like bazooka tower.
 

Cajunking

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Any game that allows you to pay for advancement or troop card puts the other player at a disadvantage. You mention that CoC only offers deals for advancment, yet that might not be consider P2W like buying troop cards. In a single match yes, but it is still P2W. Example. If we are both AA, and they come out with Space age, we advance at the same time yet I buy crowns to advance my troops, defense building and research and you take the normal 1000 days. Next war I am at an advantage but I only paid to advance not buy troop cards. Never played CoC but would think concept is the same.

Now if nexon only allowed troop cards from event to be to be used in war, it levels the playing field a little, except those that pay to advance...like in CoC
 

KniferX

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Visual customization. Something like custom troops design, different building designs, colours, flags, all those things. Maybe even a custom music choice after victory for example, to play for both the victor and the defeated on replay. Doesn't affect gameplay in any way, and I know a lot of people would love having something dumb like brightly coloured pink heavy tanks destroying someone's base while playing My Little Pony's theme song or whatever.
 

Quovatis

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They are full-on embracing pay to win. With the recent elephant archer sales and the current event, it's obvious they just want to sell more of what sells best, regardless of the consequences. Nexon needs to remove the "we don't believe in pay to win" crap from their webpage, because by any measure it's just not true.

We all understand they need to make money, but there are many other ways to go about it. Wars are no longer about skill, just who bought more elephant archers.
 

LordJestix

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Any game that allows you to pay for advancement or troop card puts the other player at a disadvantage. You mention that CoC only offers deals for advancment, yet that might not be consider P2W like buying troop cards. In a single match yes, but it is still P2W. Example. If we are both AA, and they come out with Space age, we advance at the same time yet I buy crowns to advance my troops, defense building and research and you take the normal 1000 days. Next war I am at an advantage but I only paid to advance not buy troop cards. Never played CoC but would think concept is the same.

Now if nexon only allowed troop cards from event to be to be used in war, it levels the playing field a little, except those that pay to advance...like in CoC

These arent the same.

P2W means you gain a direct advantage over those that cannot spend money because there is almost no other way to obtain those items.

P2advance is just that. A guy spending crowns/gems(depending on the game) to advance his village faster is only doing that. All Free players or small money spenders can still get to where the first guy is, its just going to take longer.

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The SuperCell games have so many different sales and stuff that are actually affordable for most and give real value. I could be wrong here, but i think the best sale ive seen is 50% more crowns, where as in Clash Royale ive seen a 6x value sale.

In CoC, i recently went to a TH9. Upon getting to TH9 i was given an offer of Instant Build Archer Queen(40k dark elixir), Instant build X-Bow(3M gold and 7 day build time), and 1.2k Gems. Dark Elixir = Oil and Gems = Crowns. All of that for 9.99, the same cost of 1.2k gems. A similar offer in Dominations would have probably cost $25-35.

Right now i have an offer in Dominations called "no fly zone" that for the "small" fee of 64.99 i can instantly complete the first 4 chapters of Air Defense. At $65 BHG has basically just priced out, id guess, 75% of the player base if not more.

A previous sale i was offered was to instantly build my first bunker for $34.99. This is just outrageous. Again, most players are not going to be able to afford to buy something like that.

As previously stated above, in CoC you dont have to pay to buy all of your potential workers, whereas in Dominations you have to spend $50 to obtain the maximum amount of workers. That again will price out a majority of the player base.

Im willing to spend money on games like this, but not when things are so blatantly over priced and NEVER will i buy 1 time use items, i learned that hard lesson by throwing a lot of my money away in Game of War.

How many people early game would spend say 2.99 to upgrade a newly unlocked general to level 10. My guess is a lot more people that dont really spend money would have bought that.

How about a sale when you get to a new age that has a Wonder, For 9.99 Instant build Wonder of your choice, Instant upgrade of 1 Market and 1 Mill, and 1.2k Crowns.

How about a sale that shows up once a month or so that for 4.99 200 Crowns, Automatically clear 1 Forrest tile and Gold, Food, Oil resource gain = to 50% of current storage capacity, that goes into your inventory to claim when you want.

1.99 120 crowns, -25% Build Time Blessing, lasts 1 days. - You can bet your ass they would sell a ton of these.

0.99 80 crowns, -15% wall cost discount blessing, last 3 hours. (i know blessings kind of fall into the 1 time use category, but the benefit you get from them is everlasting.)

4.99 500 crowns, 2x speed blessing to university/armory/library research times, last 1 day. (This means that during the time the blessing is active, they upgrade twice as fast. So Say you start Artillery upgrade thats 8 days long, it doesnt go to 4 days ,but during the 1 day of active blessing it will do 2 days of upgrade time and then have 6 days left instead of 7 when the blessing runs out.)

Economy boost sale, 9.99 instantly upgrade all resource producing buildings +1 level, not exceeding current age cap. Resource boost blessing, all resource production increased by 3x. last 1 week.

As mentioned above by KniferX, people love cosmetic changes. Dota/LoL/Overwatch/HotS make most of their money off of skins.

Maybe i want my village to be a dessert or tundra or something else, maybe i want my walls to be pink or blue, etc. maybe i want my troops to wear santa hats. Make skins like this for .99 each. Create a skins tab that allows us to enable/disable skins that we have purchased. They could also have skins that are limited, meaning you have to get them as part of some sale and once the sale is over you cant get them, like an anniversary sale.

These are just a handful of ideas i thought of this morning. There are many other things they could do that i may not even think of, but let it be known, they can make a hell of a lot more money if they actually offer us good sales at a reasonable price.

And Rest assured, p2w is going to hurt the game more than it helps. Its going to turn people away that do spend money but cant spend what it takes to keep winning wars, or like me wont spend money on 1 time use items and hate losing war after war after war because of p2w features in war.
 

Motaz Tarek

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the concept of pay2win is getting a feature that is NOT available to normal players with real cash giving u more advancement that the other players

if u apply this concept to the game, u will find that dominations has become a 100% pay2win game, say no more

so it was on three stages, first the starter pack that offered extra 2 citizens prior to the age they will be available at, had a little or no impact in gameplay

then the estate offered 3 extra citizens that will never be available unless u pay real money had a moderate impact on the gameplay specially after adding university and raising the worker cost of many buildings (castle from 4 to 8, stable from 4 to 6, towers from 3 to 4, lastly barracks from 4 to 5, not to mention the TC and wonders worker cost but these are one time upgrades in game)

lastly the introduction of troop cards, which started by adding them through events only, then gigantic amounts through real cash purchases,

this step worsened by adding stronghold which added not only attack role of troop cards but also defense role further worsening by making SH defender troops spawn even if it's destroyed and now destroying SH is worse cuz it spawns all cards at once instead of in waves, basically the only building that destroying it is worse than keeping it alive (cuz fuck logic)

further pay2win worsening by nerfing offense aspect so maxed out AA bases are impossible or semi impossible to beat without troop cards (specially if they have troop cards in SH too)

maximum pay2win worsening by adding time factor to wars, as now ur not only forced to use cards to achieve 5 star, but also ur forced to use them to achieve better time score, cuz if u stalemate a war, at max perfect score, and ur opponent used troop cards while u depended on ur skill getting perfect score, u still lose cuz definitely troop cards helped them achieve a better time score

from my point of view, most of the players are continuing to play the game cuz they don't want to abandon the progress they made but without fun, most of them stopped spending as much as before since either bring a full alliance of wallet warriors or u will never make it to the top alone if ur alliance mates are not the at same cash donation as u

not to mention that many have quitted and rate of new players flow is now almost zero with many alliances hungry for new members and many others merging due to the lack of members
 

LordJestix

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I havent even experienced the p2w wars yet, but i still fight against it.

With the "recent" update to CoC and the continued downward spiral of Dominations, i have been playing less nad less Dominations and a lot more CoC.

I continue to play though, only because i want to keep my progress if and when this game moves in the right direction. Until that time, i refuse to spend any more money on this game, mainly because i have a fear that within the next year or two this game will be shut down from the lack of a player base.
 

BeerMan

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At what point do you start facing P2W alliances on a regular basis? Our alliance hovers between 18 and 19K glory, and I've only come across elephant archers in the SH (or any troops for that matter) a couple of times. Does this issue primarily impact the top 100, or will we be facing it soon?
 

SiuYin

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Nexon need revenue,it is absolute fine.
There are 2ways to make more money:more people pay or people pay more.

Obviously, they choose the second one, thats why a lot of pay to win featues, especially after stronghold.

The game is really boring now. more then half of troops are useless, never able to complete defense.unless you pay huge amount for crown.

I dont want to buy any one time use troop card, And I dont think it is good investment spending$10 to upgrade a single building one more level. It is too expansive.

For a game which is full of bugs, It is not worth for something like$10 per month
 

Quovatis

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Motaz Tarek summed it up pretty well. The starter packs were fine. The estate was grossly overpriced, but not gamebreaking. What really started messing everything up is troop cards. In the beginning, you could only earn them from events, which was fine, because everybody was on the same footing, pay or not. But then they started offering the cards for money, and that's where the gap started. Suddenly you could have unlimited cards by paying money, guaranteeing a victory no matter what. The attempt to address this with the stronghold backfired. The community asked for a way to limit the number of cards on offense. Yes, the stronghold did just this, but the defense aspect of the SH (loading defense cards inside) made the pay to win so much worse than before because now not only do you have to pay to compete on offense, but defense too! The SH made things worse, not better.

I can tell you definitively that two equally matched teams in skill, one having loaded their strongholds with elephant archers, and the other with nothing, or just a few free troops from events, that the one loading their strongholds have a 99.99% chance of winning. Money invested in the troop cards decides this war 99%. Skill is just 1% of the equation. I would like Nexon/BHG to explain how this can possibly be consistent to their "We believe in play to win, not pay to win" motto?
 

Quovatis

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But Nexon's mission statement is "We believe in play to win, not pay to win". That's a big reason why I started playing this game. Now I feel betrayed, as it's one huge bait and switch money grab scheme.
 

LordJestix

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@Master Contrail Program

I assume you mean the cost of the crown packs? If thats the case, its the same cost in every other game that SuperCell has.
 

Master Contrail Program

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No, I mean the crown costs of rushing things. From IA and up it costs essentially $10 to rush a single building or late library/uni tech. There are over well over 100 of these per age in the late game. Though I doubt people would rush things like the vault or increased marble chance it's still ridiculous.
 

Motaz Tarek

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LordJestix hope u don't experience it one day, me and my alliance decided not to play for competitive p2w wars and play for fun, improve our attacks skills and defense to get the best results we can from our wars without the frustration p2w wars bring, that's not as good as when u could make it to top 20 leaderboard without spending a single $ but still better than the current slavery machine nexon has put top alliances into
 

Motaz Tarek

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no idea why they decided to kill their game when it started to shine among other strategy games, it was really one of the best games i even preferred it over CoC, seems like good things don't last forever, or in this case at least for few years
 
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